My God...I need someone to explain this to me...

MrGrob · #1 07-28-2005, 01:39 AM

Sit-n-Goes are cool -- they are fun little tourneys with bad players.

However, I don't understand this "pushing concept" at all. Why are you going to take a situation, as +EV as it may be, and risk all of your chips, on what might be no more then a coin-flip? I understand not wanting to let someone draw out on you, but I believe all you are doing is creating an "only called when beaten" situation (and I am not talking about AA, KK, etc...). Also, why are you going to take the decisions out of the game? If you are the better player, have better reads, and can out play the table, why are you going to toss that +EV for a situation where you might not have that great an advantage? I think that I have run across "chip vomitters" (or 2+2'ers?), and find it easy to adjust to this flawed way of thinking. Am I just reading way too much into this "pushing thing"? Why are you going to risk your whole stack, or a huge % of it to chase a little bit of money...and risk losing a huge amount?

The Yugoslavian · #2 07-28-2005, 01:42 AM

It's all math. All of the uncontested chips you win are what make taking certain risks worthwhile. It's all about risk/reward contextually....

This is really why all the pushing is late...b/c the blinds you are trying to steal represent a significant amount of the $$ prize pool.

Good play can certainly sometimes look like chip spewing but it generally shouldn't. The biggest chip spewer I've ever witnessed goes by the moniker 'Gigabet'....you may have heard of him. Anyway, all good players learn to balance somewhat reckless aggression with patience....you need to pick the spots for it.

Oh, and if you're getting called by worse hands all the time when the blinds are high it probably means you're not pushing enough, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Yugoslav

ChuckNorris · #3 07-28-2005, 01:43 AM

Read the forum. Here's a good place to begin.

AlphaN3rd · #4 07-28-2005, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sit-n-Goes are cool -- they are fun little tourneys with bad players.

However, I don't understand this "pushing concept" at all. Why are you going to take a situation, as +EV as it may be, and risk all of your chips, on what might be no more then a coin-flip? I understand not wanting to let someone draw out on you, but I believe all you are doing is creating an "only called when beaten" situation (and I am not talking about AA, KK, etc...). Also, why are you going to take the decisions out of the game? If you are the better player, have better reads, and can out play the table, why are you going to toss that +EV for a situation where you might not have that great an advantage? I think that I have run across "chip vomitters" (or 2+2'ers?), and find it easy to adjust to this flawed way of thinking. Am I just reading way too much into this "pushing thing"? Why are you going to risk your whole stack, or a huge % of it to chase a little bit of money...and risk losing a huge amount?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read this article, and then read it a couple more times.

http://www.tightpoker.com/tournament..._stealing.html

Yes, it might be a coinflip if you're called, heck you might even be an underdog - but you must take advantage of fold equity.

11t · #5 07-28-2005, 01:50 AM

Does, "fortune favors the bold" suffice as an answer?

However, it does say in the Bible that the "meek shall inherit the Earth" so perhaps we are both right.

"I believe all you are doing is creating an "only called when beaten" situation" - You would be surprised, as you push more people's calling ranges get looser, then if you tighten up (don't make -EV pushes) for an orbit and pick up a decent hand often times you will get called by some fool with a very marginal hand.

Also places such as Party Poker/Skins simply don't have the stacks/structure for accomodate the type of poker you are talking about.

Also I love sucking out on AK with j7os.

The Yugoslavian · #6 07-28-2005, 01:59 AM

Meh....don't listen to us ICM/SNA junkies....let's take a quick reprieve back to the old school:

Do you like my Praying Mantis style?

Blast from the past baby!

Yugoslav

MrGrob · #7 07-28-2005, 02:26 AM

I play UB SnGs only, so I can understand the difference when talking about Party vs. UB structure. Thanks for the posts, I will read the heck out of them and see what I think. So far, I think that I understand what it is all about, just never looked at it from the math / close study aspect before. But before I believe this, I am going to check it out closely.

Thanks for the direction...now let me see where it leads [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]