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  #11  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:29 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if my post is not clear. I'm lookig for a formula that could be used to guide the investment. For example, a player like Ozzy87/BigSlick789 could rebuy 20x in the 10+1 for 200 and likely show a very healthy return on his investment.

Whereas the same player, with all due respect, rebuying @ that same rate, will likely show a substantial loss in 100 +9.


I am hoping to be able to plug in the data into an excel sheet and come up with a general guide line to rebuy purchases. Any clearer now??? Please let me know. T

[/ QUOTE ] The number of times you rebuy is unimportant if you are planning on rebuying. The critical variable is how much time is left in the rebuy period.

Everytime you lose your stack, it is like you are starting anew. What you spent before doesn't matter--it's how much time you have left to build a competitive stack.

If you are a great player, perhaps one minute is enough. You are able to be profitable with only 3000 chips in your stack after the rebuy period.

If you are marginal, then you might need the whole 60 minutes for your investment to be profitable.
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

Jcm,

I tend to agree with you, but some rebuy tables are sweeter than others. If there is a maniac at the table pushing every hand, I'm happy to keep rebuying, because I can accumulate more playing 45 minutes against that guy than I can playing an hour at a calmer table tomorrow.

Another thing to consider is the amount of money at the table (which of course has a lot to do with the presence of rebuy maniacs). At a juicy table, it's often worth two buyins to stick around, even if no one is playing especially badly.
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:34 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

[ QUOTE ]
Jcm,

I tend to agree with you, but some rebuy tables are sweeter than others. If there is a maniac at the table pushing every hand, I'm happy to keep rebuying, because I can accumulate more playing 45 minutes against that guy than I can playing an hour at a calmer table tomorrow.

Another thing to consider is the amount of money at the table (which of course has a lot to do with the presence of rebuy maniacs). At a juicy table, it's often worth two buyins to stick around, even if no one is playing especially badly.

[/ QUOTE ] I completely agree with you. Very good points.

I don't like to be the maniac during the rebuy period, but sometimes I start acting like the maniac (and showing my hands when everyone folds) if nobody is willing to play the role. Hopefully that wakes everybody up, and I can slow down a bit.
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  #14  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:42 PM
BPA234 BPA234 is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

Basically, what I am visualizing in my head is a line graph that shows entry/rebuy purchases intersecting with cashes. At some point the number of purchases exceeds the likely cash return. Finding a way to invest optimally for each set of conditions would be very helpful.
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  #15  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:43 PM
ZBTHorton ZBTHorton is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

If you see it in your head, what is the answer?
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:51 PM
REL18 REL18 is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

The problem with rebuying after a certain amount of time has passed in my opinion any more then 30 minutes is that even though your edge no matter how big it is can not make up for the fact that the donkies u face now have a good size chip stack why not save the money and play well again when people do not have that larger chip stack
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:53 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, what I am visualizing in my head is a line graph that shows entry/rebuy purchases intersecting with cashes. At some point the number of purchases exceeds the likely cash return. Finding a way to invest optimally for each set of conditions would be very helpful.

[/ QUOTE ] You can't get that kind of graph, because you are thinking about this in the wrong way.

Your question is (or should be): Is it profitable for me to invest $20 in rebuying 3000 chips?

Here are 2 situations: You push 4 of your first 20 hands and lose everytime (let's say that every push was +EV--you are just having a bad run of cards). 10 minutes has passed. Should you invest $20 to rebuy another 3000 chips?

OR

You push only one hand--the 20th you are dealt. 10 minutes has passed. should you invest $20 to rebuy another 3000 chips?

You should see that the answer is the same. It doesn't matter that you invested $80 in one situation and $20 in the other. That is completely irrelevant to the question. You are faced with the question as to whether you should invest another $20, and you have 50 minutes to rebuild your bankroll.

The better way to approach this question is to determine beforehand how much you can invest in the rebuy, and to stick to that.
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  #18  
Old 12-27-2005, 04:55 PM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

Again, you have to stop thinking of it as a collective investment.

If you drop 100 in a $10 rebuy, that's not a $100 investment, it's 5 seperate $20 investments (counting double rebuys). The outcome of one has no impact on the outcome of the others.

If you're +EV playing it once, you're +EV playing it a second time.
--

jcm made points about the time remaining, but in the bigger rebuys that we're used to (like the 45k) if you're a winning player w/ 3000 chips to start, then you will be w/ 5000 and an hour in. So i don't think time remaining plays a significant role.
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  #19  
Old 12-27-2005, 05:02 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

[ QUOTE ]
jcm made points about the time remaining, but in the bigger rebuys that we're used to (like the 45k) if you're a winning player w/ 3000 chips to start, then you will be w/ 5000 and an hour in. So i don't think time remaining plays a significant role.

[/ QUOTE ] I probably am making too much of the time factor, for most winning players. But if you have a somewhat limited bankroll, then I think time is an important factor. If you have only 100X buy-ins, the smart thing if you bust out 30 minutes into the tournament is to come back the next day.

Actually sleep is the important factor for me. If I bust out with 10 minutes remaining, I'm giving it up and going to bed.
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2005, 05:27 PM
BPA234 BPA234 is offline
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Default Re: A Rebuy ? for Math Majors

Please understand, this is not about a specific rebuy scenario or a strategy request. Simply a request to see if there is a way to input some relevant data into a model that will produce a result that can be used to guide decisions on investment that yield over an annual period.

Since the factors can be expressed numerically, and since this is about results over time, I know this is possible. I just do not know how to write the math.
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