Facing a turn reraise with TPTK

[arch12]

Hey guys,

What's your opinion on this hand and your suggested line.
No accurate reads on the opponents given that I had only played 10 or so hands with them, so consider me readless.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
MP1/Villain calls, 4 folds, <font color="red"> hero raises</font>, <font color="red">CO reraises</font>, 3 folds, Villain calls, hero calls



Dealing Flop: (10SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
villain checks, <font color="red">hero bets</font>, CO calls, villain calls



Dealing Turn: (~7BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">villain bets</font>, <font color="red">hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="red">villain reraises</font>, Hero…

[Frank Zappy]

Raises.

You just joined the table, TPTK, Villain coldcalled 2 bets PF, Push it and Make him Show it down!

He's got anything from A7, JT, 76 to K4, but you don't know him so you have to play your hand.

[krimson]

Call down. I would suspect the donk-bet/3-bet is a set, but if he only has 2-pair then we still have plenty of outs against him. I think the cap that was suggested here is spewing vs an unknown.

[W. Deranged]

I don't like this reasoning at all.

Making new players show down hands is not a good reason to spew big bets.

Just because you don't know a player doesn't mean it's likely that he's running a pure bluff or way overplaying top pair or something like that.

Note that the cold-call pre-flop could mean a connecting/speculative type hand like J10 that may have made a big hand.

The only options here in my opinion are folding the turn or calling down. You do have outs against two pair here, but it's hard to tell what those outs are (because many of your counterfeiting outs may make a boat for villain). Even if you hit a perfect card on the river (another A or K), you are not in a great position, and probably can't raise the river.

Basically, this is a standard turn situation where the odds to improve don't merit a call on their own and so you must decide whether you feel you are likely enough to be good to continue. Hence, calling the turn will necessitate also calling the river. Against an unknown with little chance of improving, getting around 13-2 or so on a call down (meaning you need to have 13% equity here), with anywhere between 0 and 11 possible outs (and the chance you're good), I probably bite the bullet and call down, but I'm not happy about it. And I'm too loose in most of these situations anyway.

Capping the turn here is spewing, plain and simple. If you cap and villain leads the river you are going to be ahead here basically none of the time. People don't (edit: usually) three-bet the turn for nothing.

[AVF2k1]

I misread the hand so I have removed my thoughts.

/Oscar

[W. Deranged]

AV--

I'm confused. River action hasn't been posted yet. Are you talking about the turn.

Also, I VERY STRONGLY encourage anyone replying to posts to justify any statement involving the phrase "you have to..."

Saying "you have to call..." says nothing. Why? For drawing odds? Because we are ahead of enough hands in villain's range? Because of our profile of villain???

Fighting sloppy logic,
W.D.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Raises.

You just joined the table, TPTK, Villain coldcalled 2 bets PF, Push it and Make him Show it down!

He's got anything from A7, JT, 76 to K4, but you don't know him so you have to play your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make him show it down?

It's quite clear to me that he is, and I find your advice to be somewhat reckless.

While I'm certainly not folding here, by no means to I feel the need to spew chips.

Folding could be an option if I knew the player. A lot of the times even with a known manaic, call down is going to be a vialabe option.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[butters]

...calls and calls a blank on the river. he could be jamming a pair + a draw here, so i'd want to see a showdown.

[MrEngenic]

Capping the turn would be a BIG mistake. People dont usually 3-bet the turn with nothing.
I'd call this down against an unknown but I'd expect to be beat.

[AVF2k1]

Hmmm...

I have no idea why I thought the action was on the river... Just disregard what I wrote.

I apologies for my "sloppy logic". I will be better in the future to clarify why I advocate a certain play.

/Oscar