Am I playing hands like this okay, or is there a better way?

snowbank · #1 10-22-2005, 06:33 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (6 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

Danenania · #2 10-22-2005, 06:35 PM

Well played.

snowbank · #3 10-22-2005, 06:37 PM

So to raise the flop there is standard?

Should I consider bluffing the river?

Roy6 · #4 10-22-2005, 06:42 PM

no need to bluff the river, better hands call, worse hands fold

Danenania · #5 10-22-2005, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So to raise the flop there is standard?

Should I consider bluffing the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes the flop raise is mandatory. You have a huge equity edge with up to 15 solid outs plus some backdoor straight outs if behind, but you also might be ahead if BB is betting a draw. You want as much money to go in on this flop as possible. You don't care much whether SB calls or folds. If he calls he's contributing double to a pot that you own the lion's share of, and if he folds it might clear up some outs and make it more likely for you to win unimproved. Either is good.

There is no value in a river bluff. If you bet and they both fold it will be because you have the best hand anyway.

snowbank · #6 10-24-2005, 02:21 PM

You want as much money to go in on this flop as possible.

Is this always the case in limit with a flush draw and overcards on the flop? Raise as many times as I can?

#7 10-24-2005, 02:50 PM

Is it spewing to bet the turn here? I count 9 outs for the clubs, 1.5 for the Aces, 3 for the sevens, maybe another 1.5 for the Queens for 15 total? This comes to nearly 1/3rd equity against two opponents, and there's got to be some chance they'll both fold here right? My guess is if you've got a read BB can fold with middle pair decent kicker here it would be worth a bet, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.

Surfbullet · #8 10-24-2005, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it spewing to bet the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have virtually 0 fold equity on the turn. after you get a CCer and the original aggressor calls you can be pretty sure they are either on draws or a mediocre pair...either way noone is folding and we're just putting in money as a dog, whereas we could bet (or raise!) the river when we hit.

Surf

donger · #9 10-24-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You want as much money to go in on this flop as possible.

Is this always the case in limit with a flush draw and overcards on the flop? Raise as many times as I can?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but you should definitely throw in some raises in a multiway pot. I wouldn't go buck wild heads up and out of position or anything.

The reason raises have value is that you usually have an equity advantage on the flop. Let's say you have 9 outs to the nuts (a flush). If everybody just turned your hands over and ran the turn and river, you would win this about 35% of the time. So if you're in a 4 way pot, your share of any action is 1/4 or 25%. With an equity of 35%, you gain value on any extra bets you can get all of your opponents to throw in.

The situation is different if you are heads up (against a strong hand.) Your pot share is 50%, and you will only win 35% of the time, so you probably don't want to go bananas.

brazilio · #10 10-24-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it spewing to bet the turn here? I count 9 outs for the clubs, 1.5 for the Aces, 3 for the sevens, maybe another 1.5 for the Queens for 15 total? This comes to nearly 1/3rd equity against two opponents, and there's got to be some chance they'll both fold here right? My guess is if you've got a read BB can fold with middle pair decent kicker here it would be worth a bet, but I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got very likely more than 1.5 for the Queens. I generally bet the turn because in any neutral EV situation with draws, I think betting is better than checking for inducing calls on later streets.