committed to 99

[MRBAA]

I think playing a short stack as I described is a pretty good way to play these games. I can always rebuy, but playing a big stack actually makes hand-reading and turn and river decisions alot more important and, to some extent, rewards the more prevalent overly loose/aggressive style of most players in these games. I'd be interested in other views though, with actual analysis not "I hat short stacks" or "put a couple of ben franklins on the table and play poker". I've got a large bankroll from years of limit winnings, so short stack is not about fear of loss -- I believe it to be an optimal strategy for a newer no-limit player.

[vulturesrow]

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I think playing a short stack as I described is a pretty good way to play these games. I can always rebuy, but playing a big stack actually makes hand-reading and turn and river decisions alot more important and, to some extent, rewards the more prevalent overly loose/aggressive style of most players in these games. I'd be interested in other views though, with actual analysis not "I hat short stacks" or "put a couple of ben franklins on the table and play poker". I've got a large bankroll from years of limit winnings, so short stack is not about fear of loss -- I believe it to be an optimal strategy for a newer no-limit player.

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A lot of people here dont like players that buy in short. The primary reason is because they cant beat it. There are other secondary reasons they dont like it but in my mind this is what it boils down to. As to its value for newer NL player, Im on the fence. I think it has some value, but fimbulwinter was able to convince me that it had limited usefulness in learning to play well.

So here is what I think (and I know you didnt ask, but Im on a roll [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) :

If you are just playing NL for fun and limit is your primary game, play however you want. If you want to develop your NL skills you are going to have to start playing deeper money sooner or later.

[guaranteedBluff]

I agree that this method of playing can be effective, especially for those who are less comfortable with their post-flop play.

For one, I play very carefully with short stacks, knowing that they want to catch their monster and push. I'm sure most players are cognisant of this fact, which consequently lowers the effectiveness of this type of play.

For a big stack, its not desirable to sit at a table where, if you play a hand well from start to finish, you can only make 20-40 bb because the villain did not buy in in full; hence, the animosity of many toward the small stack types.

Basically, those who buy in for full consider small stacks somewhat of "pests" bc it is difficult to read them (some are willing to go all in with little) and bc when they are correctly played against, little money is made anyway!

In conclusion, I hate shortstacks.

[vulturesrow]

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I'm sure most players are cognisant of this fact, which consequently lowers the effectiveness of this type of play.

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This is wrong. I would say most good players are cognizant of this fact. However most players are not good. Thats what makes this style of play even more profitable than one might expect.

[guaranteedBluff]

so even though they know how short stacks play they don't know how to lower the effectiveness of this style?

[vulturesrow]

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so even though they know how short stacks play they don't know how to lower the effectiveness of this style?

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You misunderstood me. Most players are not good and will call his raises and pushes with hands that they shouldnt be. That said, there is no real way to limit the effectiveness of this style of play even if you do understand what is going on, esp. against a shortstack player who understands what he is doing, vice the guy who buys in short because he is scared money and is just trying to limit his losses.

[bingledork]

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I'm sorry Lennon, but this is just a useless post.

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Wah. You really hurt my feelings. Thanks for the critique.

What sage advice are you looking for? It's obvious from your Pooh-bah status that you know how to play poker, and your actions on this hand are standard short-stack strategy. You played it fine, villian played it fine.
What's there to discuss?

I hate shorts stacks because they take the skill out of the game and reduce it to a coinflip competition. I don't fault you for using it, because it gives you the advantage. Just so you realize the other players in the game don't like you.

[TheWorstPlayer]

For someone sitting with 17bbs you played it fine.

[MRBAA]

I've played thousands of hours of limit hold'em, not even 100 of N/L yet. So I'm starting with the small stack strategy to build up feel for the game. I will have to play a bigger stack (and have) when I double up a couple of times and don't want to get up (I have so far played n/l live only, although I do play limit online). Ultimately, I want to see if I like n/l -- at first glance, cash games seem lame to me -- lots of waiting around. But there sure is alot of loose new money in them these days. And they do get the adrenaline flowing more than limit (but this may just be because I'm new).

[TheWorstPlayer]

40bbs is a short stack. 20bbs is ridiculous.