You don't have no stinking king

[MRBAA]

Party 2-4 he -- the players are loose, they are irrational, they are not tremendously aggressive and there are (as usual) one or two tight reasonable ones, too.

One limper to me, I limp wi/ 87s, one more limper, sb folds, bb checks, four to the flop of:

K73 two suited (not my suit)

BB (one of the tight reasonable sorts) checks,

Limper 1 (one of the super loose nutty sorts) bets.

I raise, 2nd limper folds, BB calls, limper calls.

Turn (5BB)

K73 (K)


Checked to me, I bet, both call. I put BB on a flush draw, pocket pair or a 7.

8BB, river comes:

K73K (7)

BB fires out a bet, limper 1 folds and I...

[Fat Nicky]

You're likely splitting this pot and you will get 3-bet if he has a weirdly played K. I don't see much +EV in raising here.

[shadow29]

I don't make this call pf. I am assuming you're in MP or so? Yeah, I don't like to call with just one limper without position.

I'm not sure why we're fighting over this flop. It's small, there's an overcard, and there's a flush draw out.

On the river, I just call because I can't fold to a 3-bet. At best, I feel like we have a chop. At worst, we get 3-bet and get shown the King. At 2/4 they're irrational, like you say. A specific read on BB would help, I suppose. But I don't raise that river.

[MRBAA]

Marginal call pf, I agree. This was a loose passive table but it's still probably not great.

On the flop, I thought there was a very good chance I had the best hand -- giving up second pair against a flop bet from a very loose crazy player is giving up too much, I think, and my hand is too weak to just call. I want to isolate just him -- so I raise. Against a tight, straightforward player, I fold this everytime (for instance, if the BB bet the flop).

[JerseyTom]

[ QUOTE ]

On the river, I just call because I can't fold to a 3-bet. At best, I feel like we have a chop. At worst, we get 3-bet and get shown the King.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have nothing to add to this.


Tom

[MRBAA]

His bet surprised me, and my first thought was a slow -played king. But he really wasn't that tricky. I couldn't think of a hand I beat he'd call with, so I just called.

He had AQs, flush draw that missed. So the seven pairing gave him two pair, ace kicker. I like his bet (since he'd probably have called if he checked to me) and am pretty sure he'd have folded to a raise.

[chief444]

I'd fold this flop pretty often even considering the opponent.

I can't think of a good argument for anything but calling the river. If you raise...a worse hand likely folds, an equal hand calls, a better hand reraises.

[MRBAA]

Chief, I think if you call preflop with a marginal hand because you think the opponents are playing poor cards and will play badly postflop, you can't give up this easily when you do catch a piece.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Chief, I think if you call preflop with a marginal hand because you think the opponents are playing poor cards and will play badly postflop, you can't give up when you do catch a piece.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree pretty stongly with this.

Being able to fold weak hands when they only catch a piece is the reason that we can play these weak hands, and poorer players cant.

[chief444]

MRBAA,

I think Jordan said it well and I agree that really a big part of playing marginal hands profitably is knowing when to get away from them. I think if you had A8 I'd like the raise. But with middle pair no kicker in a fairly small pot I think this is a good time to get out of this one. At best you get it heads up and are probably about a coin flip or so to win. Don't get me wrong though I don't think the raise is that bad. As I said if I had an overcard/decent kicker with the middle pair I would raise. And I do agree that calling isn't a good option here.

Chief