Line Check - BB Hand Level 1

[badluckal]

No real reads. I have played one hand before this, I took the pot on the flop without a showdown.

Is this too marginal a spot to get my chips in, especially this early?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter

Button (t1110)
SB (t3220)
Hero (t1530)
UTG (t1400)
UTG+1 (t1450)
MP1 (t1250)
Villan (t1740)
CO (t1780)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t40</font>, MP2 (Villan)/ calls t40, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t20, UTG+1 calls t20.

Flop: (t170) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t80</font>, Villan calls t80, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t220, Villan calls t220.

Turn: (t1070) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1190 (All-In)</font>.....

[Exitonly]

Looks fine to me, but i think i'd just fold it preflop

[badluckal]

Fair enough.

I called the mini-raise because of the pot odds and because if I did hit the flop, it would be well disguised.

[MrMoo]

Agree with ExitOnly. Post flop you did fine. Preflop, you should be folding this. Sure you're getting 5-1 to call but you're playing out of position. What kind of flop are you looking for? 99x? 44x? 94x? How often are those flops going to come? You're better off saving those extra 20 chips for later. It's hard not to be results oriented when things end up going good like this. But, I think in the long run you'll be better off just folding these in the future.

[badluckal]

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with ExitOnly. Post flop you did fine. Preflop, you should be folding this. Sure you're getting 5-1 to call but you're playing out of position. What kind of flop are you looking for? 99x? 44x? 94x? How often are those flops going to come? You're better off saving those extra 20 chips for later. It's hard not to be results oriented when things end up going good like this. But, I think in the long run you'll be better off just folding these in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough to you as well, I completely see your points on the fold pre-flop aspect as it relates to position on the flop and the chain of events required to make the call profitable.

To explain my decision in calling there, I considered my poor position as a reason to fold, but this T20 represented less than 2% of my stack, and I figured it would be very easy to get away from if I missed but would offer incredible implied odds if I hit.

Thus, I think I disagree that folding in the BB to a miniraise in a multiway pot with a well-concealed hand is a profitable move long-term because of the implied odds involved. I want to take every cheap opportunity to accumulate chips early, and therefore I think I call with almost any two here.

Thats an easy call preflop with any 2 cards you hold in my opinion - providing u think ur a good plyr. i mean apart from hitting the 4-4-x, 9-9-x, 9-4-x sort of flops wots wrong with a 2-3-5 rainbow or 6-7-8 rainbow flop? or even if u flop a 4-5-J sort of flop and he bets not enuff into the pot - the u being a good plyr - would call this hoping to hit a 4 or possibly a 9 (although u may be dominated there) for the great implied odds potential.

Anyway this is early on in the torny, so anything goes. When i play in a decent size £ torny i would risk upto 33% of my stack early doors because its not really going to be used anyway until the levels go up is it?

[captainzodiac]

i really think you shouldn't fold here preflop,i see your point of saving 20 chips,but the implied odds in a min raised pot are huge,when a player makes this poor play by min raisig at early blind levels to the blinds with hands like ak,then goes broke and calls the guy a fish for calling preflop,he actually made the much worse play by min raising in my opinion. when you min raise,basically you're saying you want a call,and you're getting one,so you had better be sure you flop a good one,if you want to risk your stack.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
i really think you shouldn't fold here preflop,i see your point of saving 20 chips,but the implied odds in a min raised pot are huge,when a player makes this poor play by min raisig at early blind levels to the blinds with hands like ak,then goes broke and calls the guy a fish for calling preflop,he actually made the much worse play by min raising in my opinion. when you min raise,basically you're saying you want a call,and you're getting one,so you had better be sure you flop a good one,if you want to risk your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

your implied odds aren't nearly as high as you guys are saying..

first the flop has to come 94x, 99x, or 44x.
second villain has to have an actual hand they're willing to commit all their chips (or a lot of them atleast) with.
third they dont draw out on you, especially if you 'hit' 94x.. you'll get counterfitted fairly often.

Sure it's 'only' 20 chips, but it's a bad call, and those 20 chips that are 'only' 2% of your stack now, if you get to the final table those '20' chips would have been 2-6 thousand. That's not entirely true, but those 20 chips impact your tournament more than you think. Any future double ups and that 20 turns into 40 chips you could have had... and blah blah blah.

[benneh]

[ QUOTE ]
i really think you shouldn't fold here preflop,i see your point of saving 20 chips,but the implied odds in a min raised pot are huge,when a player makes this poor play by min raisig at early blind levels to the blinds with hands like ak,then goes broke and calls the guy a fish for calling preflop,he actually made the much worse play by min raising in my opinion. when you min raise,basically you're saying you want a call,and you're getting one,so you had better be sure you flop a good one,if you want to risk your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

why do you think AK will come along for the ride on a 94x flop?

Maybe if the flop comes A49, but that's a bit much of a flop to ask for. Your implied odds are not huge. Even if villain has an overpair, he will still draw out on you on the turn or river via counterfeiting your 2 pair or hitting his set.

[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine to me, but i think i'd just fold it preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
that is rubish talk,the pot is about 150 and it costs him 20 to call which is more than 7:1 odds.if you think he should folded this then you have nothing about odds and i think poker is the wrong thing for you.
your call was compeletly justified giving the odds,they play it self looks fine to me.
to be honest if this is a rebuy and your in the rebuy period ,i would not even give it a second thought,you could be facing a set or a higher two pair,some one could have K9,but not likely seen as you have a 9 and one floped,more than likely your facing a flush draw,or K with bad kicker.
the reason why you call in situations like this when ur getting good odds,is exactly this,you flop a strong hand and whats more is no one would susspect it.so you should make the most of it.you may get out drawn or somehting,but as long as your not making a mistake,then you dont really have control over others if they want to make a mistake.you raised enough so that if any of them was on a flush draw,they were not getting the odds to draw.