AK flops Trips and gets more action than God himself would want

NYCNative · #1 09-06-2005, 02:38 AM

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($105.90)
CO ($51.25)
Button ($54.15)
SB ($93.50)
BB ($99)
UTG ($39)
UTG+1 ($34.15)
UTG+2 ($43.50)
Hero ($77.10)
MP2 ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, Button calls $4, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $3.

Flop: ($18) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $10, Button raises to $50.15 all-in, SB calls $50.15, UTG folds, Hero raises to $73.10 all-in, SB calls $22.95.

Turn: ($214.35) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

River: ($214.35) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)

Final Pot: $214.35

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How did I do? Would it have been insanely weak-tight folding this because of worry over someone hitting with pocket 4s or worrying a donk played it with A4 (or even against all odds, both)?

Bukem_ · #2 09-06-2005, 02:44 AM

Sb has to be a super rock to fold this.

Alot of times when there is heavy action on the flop, someone flopped the full, and even AK is a fold.

But short stacks donkish action pretty much ties you in here since you have no info about whether Sb is just calling with another Ace, or if he flopped a full.

Hold on and hope for best.

Malachii · #3 09-06-2005, 02:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sb has to be a super rock to fold this.

Hold on and hope for best.

[/ QUOTE ]
What range of hands do you put them on?

donny5k · #4 09-06-2005, 02:48 AM

button has a pocket pair, SB has a worse ace. call. move on. At worst you win 20 of your 40 back from SB who does not have 44.

Malachii · #5 09-06-2005, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
button has a pocket pair, SB has a worse ace.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know, he has 44! Really though, you're being extremely optimistic here. Hand reading isn't "picking something that they can maybe/kinda/possibly have that you beat" and then getting your money in. You have to think about their range of hands. I would not feel comfortable getting my money in here.
[ QUOTE ]
At worst you win 20 of your 40 back from SB who does not have 44.

[/ QUOTE ]
Completely unsupportable assumption.

#6 09-06-2005, 03:00 AM

Had the same thing happen to me on a KKJ flop I was up against JJ and K4. I ended up breaking about even because JJ was a short stack.

donny5k · #7 09-06-2005, 03:04 AM

His coldcall screams that he has the last ace to me. There aren't a lot of 44's and A4's possible. You aren't drawing dead anyway. This is optimistic but almost no hands beat you, making the overplayed hands pretty likely.

Malachii · #8 09-06-2005, 02:46 AM

I had a very similar hand recently. I don't think it's "insanely weak tight" to be worried about 44 here, primarily because you have 3 aces accounted for and there are 2 people all in infront of you. Obviously they can't both have aces. There are no credible draws. I think you can fold this safely. If there was a possible flush draw, I call.

DaveduFresne · #9 09-06-2005, 04:00 AM

No way am I folding this unless I see someones cards and they have 44. Not for this kind of money. In an alternate scenario, lets say I'm playing 100 NL and have my stack up to 250. I raise with AK, a rock calls me with a stack of 250 as well. Flop comes AA4 I lead for say 20, he reraises me to 60. I would call, but would probably check the turn, and definitely fold to a push.

But this is a situation with normal somewhat shortstacks. I could easily see button having like pocket eights, and sb having AQ or AJ or something. I can think of maybe 3 or 4 players I might fold to, just because I know their game so well, but against anyone else, I'm going broke, and don't forget even against pocket fours, the turn or the river can save us.

NYCNative · #10 09-06-2005, 02:52 PM

I had no specific reads on either player however I had the table as a whole as rather donktastic. I had abandoned the idea of CBing here, for example, when my LP PFR/CB got called down by someone with crap who wound up hitting on the river. Watching the play in general gave me the feeling that the table was a donkfest (you can see that I got three callers with a decent 4BB raise out of position) so I was trying to play relatively straight-up poker.

I was more worried about A4 than pocket 4s out of button because I suspected him the type to slowplay a monster. The cold call of the all-in was worrisome as well however after deliberation I decided that both of them couldn't have pocket 4s. It was possible that I was against two weaker Aces or a weaker Ace and a pocket pair that got badly overplayed. Even if I was against 44 I had outs to redraw better, hitting a K, A or having the board pair up.

I decided that if I laid this down against average opponents without a solid read that I would hate myself more if they didn't have it than I would hate it if I called and one of them did have it so that's what I did.

Results to follow...