Do you call all in?

[DoctorJ]

Ken -

What is it about Pokerstars players that would cause you to fold? I only play on Pokerstars, and would be interested in your perception of the differences between PStars players and others...

Thanks...

DoctorJ

[cferejohn]

I think tournament players, especially NL, are a bit better on Pokerstars. Certainly that is where the best ones are, and the others are playing against the best, so they either improve or leave. The only other site I play on is Party Poker, and I definitely think there are more bad NL tournament players there.

[sam h]

I don't think many paradise players are going to play a set this way. And I think most would have raised before the flop with 99 or better. You are getting about 1.5:1 on your call and you are going to be winning here an easy majority of the time against a worse 8 - most likely - or a flush draw. Once the levels go up you will have less than 6 times the BB in chips, so you will be just gambling anyway with whatever you happen to be dealt.

[sam h]

If there is a 75% chance of him holding K8 or Q8, this is a ridiculously easy call.

In fact, I think you have a call even if there is equal chance of K8, a flushdraw, and an overpair. You are crushing the first as an 8:1 favorite, you are about even money with a flushdraw containing two overcards, and you are only a 3:1 dog to the overpair (not AA). Getting 1.5:1 on the call, folding here is a clear mistake.

And of course there is a much higher chance of your opponent holding K8 or Q8 than 33%, IMHO.

[ohkanada]

I think in general the tourney/1 table players are better on Pokerstars compared to Paradise.

I think the structure on Pokerstars is significantly better than on Paradise. A fixed time limit compared to 10 hands. Plus on Paradise the blinds get to the point where you are at 500-1000 and there is only 10k in play.

I am not sure if the Paradise players feel because of the structure they need to go all-in more often on crap or a draw. Maybe it is just my perception over the past week where I have played some 1 tables on both Paradise and Pokerstars. I seem to have more success at the 1 tables on Paradise. Another possibility is that on Pokerstars you seem to have to wait for a long time for a 1 table to start where they are continuous on Paradise so if you bust out early there is another one starting soon.

Ken Poklitar

[maplepig]

i would definitely call. you are the chip dog at table anyway, it's better to use your judgement and gamble now. SB is very unlikely to have two pair or better, he's making a big mistake if he plays those hands this way, even overpair is unlikely, why would he want to knock out the top pairs? Clearly, no one without a top pair top kicker can consider calling here. Most likely he's holding a flush draw or top pair

[nicky g]

I don't understand why people think he has a set or over pair here. In these tourneys, with a JJ or whatever he would have moved all-in preflop, or at least raised; and a set is pretty hard to hit - there's no reason to think that a small blind who's completed the blind in a multiway pot should ahve a pocket pair here. I would say he probably has flopped 2 rag pair or an 8. I don't know whether I'd call; I probably wouldn't have limped here.

[maplepig]

he still may have 99 or TT, against three limpers, one big blind yet to act, many conservative player won't raise them,

[maplepig]

party has the worst players(other than ladbrokes), as well the worst structure. you can train a dog to beat the game, but for the same reason, a skilled player can barely beat a trained dog.

[punkass]

This is interesting -- I wanna see what others have to say. It started as if everyone was saying that this was an easy fold, saying you don't want to risk going out at this stage, with something you don't know is winning.

But then others have said that the only things he could have are top pair. It's turning out to be an even battle now.

I am very interested in this, because lately I've been getting a lot of 4th places, and it is frustrating -- I want to know if I'm calling too many times or risking unnecessarily at these times. I would call if there was 4 people, and I was the chip loser.