Classic Buying Outs - Poker 101

Sarge85 · #1 09-13-2005, 10:14 PM

True Poker $2/$4

Loose Passive. Flop % is in the 40's, pretty much the only read i have. The only other remote read I have is that the player immediately after me is classic calling station.

hero has AT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s MP

UTG Limps, 1 fold, I limp, Calling station limps, LP raises, folded to blinds - both call as do the limpers.

11SBs.

Flop:[5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] -

SB Checks, BB bets, 1st Limper folds, I raise.

pretty standard/boring [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

newhizzle · #2 09-13-2005, 10:19 PM

i think you should be raising this PF, everything else looks fine to me

ncboiler · #3 09-13-2005, 10:21 PM

Raise preflop

Duerig · #4 09-13-2005, 10:33 PM

I think you should have raised pf. Also, when you say 'buying outs' I assume you want the calling station to fold. That is not what calling stations do.

gaming_mouse · #5 09-13-2005, 10:34 PM

I think PF is fine, though I might raise here too. I will say that the raise is not good if it gets it down to the 3 or 4 strongest hands. It's alot better if 5 or 6 people are coldcalling for sure.

I like the flop raise, but you may not be buying many outs: true loose passives call that with their gutshot.

ncboiler · #6 09-13-2005, 10:48 PM

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It's alot better if 5 or 6 people are coldcalling for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure party is loose but what tables do you play?

gaming_mouse · #7 09-13-2005, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's alot better if 5 or 6 people are coldcalling for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure party is loose but what tables do you play?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's much more common live. At the Normandie 8/16, you can often count on get getting called in 7 or 8 places.

ncboiler · #8 09-13-2005, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's alot better if 5 or 6 people are coldcalling for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure party is loose but what tables do you play?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's much more common live. At the Normandie 8/16, you can often count on get getting called in 7 or 8 places.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy Moly

Sarge85 · #9 09-14-2005, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have raised pf. Also, when you say 'buying outs' I assume you want the calling station to fold. That is not what calling stations do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had actually patted myself on the back for the way i played this hand, and i thought about it thinking - yes Ed Miller himself would have played it the same....and then i started to think.....

1) Your right - calling stations call - any other Ace is coming along for the ride that's behind me - the calling station will call as they do

2) The PF raiser is probably right to call as well. If he is any type of thinker he must realize that his potential holdings of AT-AK and other strong raising hands, can probably still come along and call two with a reasonable expectation to win this hand.

Lets remove the calling station out of the hand for now....

How right is it to "raise to clean up outs" - when your villian has a strong possiblity to have the same sort of draw you do, and should probably still call 2 bets.

My initial thought was that there are 11SBs in the hand - so I should certainly play it. Then I think, well since I'm playing - is there a benefit to raising - at the time I decided that my over card outs, Gut shot outs, and the possiblity of a free card made it a clear cut raise.

In hind sight, i think a raise on this board with a hand like JTs makes more sense than my raise with an Ace since my Ace is tainted, and I could be splitting if my gut shot came in.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] -who isn't making much sense right now.