A nice twist

[Clarkmeister]

40-80. 3 crappy limpers from EP, EMP and MP to a good player on the button who raises. Fairly broad range of hands, but nothing dumb. I call in the SB with KdQh, BB calls. 6 to the flop for 6BBs.

Flop: Kh 9s 8s. Checked to button who bets, I checkraise, BB, EP and EMP coldcall, MP folds, button calls. 5 to the turn for 11BBs.

Turn: Ad. I bet, BB folds, EP calls, EMP calls, button raises, my turn.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

fold. what else?

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
fold. what else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting 16:1 immediately and likely 18:1 after the two bad players behind him call, you need to be very sure you are drawing dead before you can fold. I don't see anything like that here, as the button can hold AJ, AT, a middle suited ace perhaps, maybe QJs...

With the overlay you are getting for the times you are drawing live, you should call.

Good luck.
Eric

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold. what else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting 16:1 immediately and likely 18:1 after the two bad players behind him call, you need to be very sure you are drawing dead before you can fold. I don't see anything like that here, as the button can hold AJ, AT, a middle suited ace perhaps, maybe QJs...

With the overlay you are getting for the times you are drawing live, you should call.

Good luck.
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget that I have no implied odds, but the fact that I lose an extra bet when I hit and it's not good really slashes my effective odds, especially considering the likelihood that spades are out against me.

[rigoletto]

As for preflop it's an easy call. The only thing you have to know is that you easily have the best hand more than 40% of the time (to account for bad position) and this is definately the case in this situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that I have no implied odds, but the fact that I lose an extra bet when I hit and it's not good really slashes my effective odds, especially considering the likelihood that spades are out against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes it a turn fold IMO. It looks like we (when I say 'we' I'm unjustly trying to put myself in the same category as Clark. It's wrong but it feels good. Besides it sounds cozy) are drawing dead a lot of the time considering that button is raising the field.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I'd have folded pre-flop.

I would have checked and folded the turn. Your hand can't be good at this point. Furthermore, 2 of your potential outs are spades, and therefore suspect.

TSP

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have folded pre-flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

No can do in this spot. He's raising in that spot with lots of hands that are dominated by KQ. Plus I get the ole discount to call. On the button I'd consider 3-betting.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I'm not following you. What hands could a good player raise 3 (albeit sub-par) limpers with that KQo dominates? I love playing it the way you did when he doesnt raise pre-flop, but he did. I just think he is so much more likely to have AJs, AK, AQ, ATs, 77-AA, etc., as opposed to a hand you dominate like QJ, KT, KJ, K9, TJ, etc.

TSP

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
as opposed to a hand you dominate like QJ, KT, KJ, K9, TJ, etc.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

Suited, he'd raise all these hands.

I'm really only concerned about AA-QQ, AK and AQ. That's it. That's a small subset of his range here, I have the SB so it costs less to see the flop, and I get a chance to play against 3 live ones. And generally, I try not to play like a donkey postflop so I don't think I'm going to get into too much trouble. Sorta. Usually.

[mikelow]

But you can fold on the turn. The ace is just a bad card for you.