Atlantic City Ruling miscommunication what happens from here...Part 1

arod15 · #1 10-01-2005, 06:27 PM

1-2NL AC Effective Stacks 300
Hero has been running well and has everyone way covered (1200) I was there with fellow 2+2er Maulik, Maulik raises to 20 from CO. Fold (I think SB folds)
I cold call with 4-5 spades. It's loose but I know I can outmanever him after the flop. The hand isnt about this call so dont flame it, it was bad, yes blah.

Then dealer says ""you acted out of turn"
SB hadn't called or folded yet, now He pops it up to 75
So I pull back my 20 and she says "You have to call now"
I said how much, she said "55 total" I asked her again, if i had to call all of it she said yes I acted out of turn. I was pissed but was so deep I didnt bother to ask the floor (I only had to call 20 it turns out) It was a big miscommunication.

Now total pot is (171)
Maulik Folds (bad fold that is in Part II)
The flop is 6 7 2r
SB pushes for 80
Whats your play here. Isnt it an auto call? 3-1 on my money and I suspect villian is on AK AQ? I knew he was going to stop and go, he had been running poor all night and wasnt much of a player. Results later....

IceKing · #2 10-01-2005, 09:57 PM

Raise!

StevieG · #3 10-01-2005, 11:14 PM

Call the floor. If you had raised out of turn, it is reasonable for your action to be binding. Likewise, your call of the original bet should be binding, no matter what the SB does.

However, it does not make sense that you are obligated to call whatever SB raises in a NL game simply because you called an earlier bet out of turn.

SpaceAce · #4 10-02-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I said how much, she said "55 total" I asked her again, if i had to call all of it she said yes I acted out of turn. I was pissed but was so deep I didnt bother to ask the floor (I only had to call 20 it turns out) It was a big miscommunication.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaat? That's ridiculous. By that rule, if you limp out of turn for $2, the guy you skipped can push for a gazillion bucks and you're obligated to call. I don't think that's quite right.

By the way, when the effective stack is $300, the difference between $20 and $75 is far from insignificant. $75 might not be much of your stack but it's way too much to be paying to enter this pot.

Edit: Oh, yeah, insta-call.

SpaceAce

arod15 · #5 10-02-2005, 10:44 AM

Right i should have called the floor but appears as if my flop call was correct. i got a lot of critizim for calling with that draw but i dont listen much to table talk as there is a reason i built my stack. (and a reason i blew it since i didnt call the floor) Overall it was a good session up 450+

RollaJ · #6 10-02-2005, 12:56 PM

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Whaaat? That's ridiculous

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Always call the floor if the ruling does not benefit you. Hopefully that is just a newbie mistake, if not make a note.

Reraise all in on the flop, thatll possibly open up more outs for you

Andy B · #7 10-02-2005, 02:33 PM

I've only played in Atlantic City once, but in most places, action out of turn is not binding. I would definitely have had the floor called over. Well, I probably would have been paying attention so it wouldn't have come up. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

You ought to be able to get away from Five-high against an over-raise. And yeah, call the all-in.

bigfishead · #8 10-02-2005, 08:26 PM

Sounds like another dealer that dont know squat but I could be wrong.

Generally speaking, the 1-2 nl games are considered low limit games for newbies and are treated as such. In other words, we as dealers give a little slack but enforce in a manner that benefits these newer players. As many in this type game have never really played much at all in a card room or casino. It is not to the benefit of the game to be super strict. Most often, (rules are always house dependent tho), in this case, when you throw out that 20, I call "time", "sir/maam it's not your turn. We allow the action from the players whos turn it is, then proceed in a normal fashio. However, if you consistently act out of turn, we may make you throw that 20 bucks in the pot but you'll be allowed to decide for yourself on the 75(55 balance). If you pay one time w/o getting to actually "play" cause you acted out of turn(then mucked to the big raise) you will never do it again. Nor will anybody else who sees this. Benefits the whole game.

But I have never heard of a player being forced to call an amount that was not in the pot prior to his action. Seem pretty rediculous. As you stated the dealer was wrong.

MisterKing · #9 10-02-2005, 11:25 PM

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Whaaat? That's ridiculous. By that rule, if you limp out of turn for $2, the guy you skipped can push for a gazillion bucks and you're obligated to call. I don't think that's quite right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this is a dumb approach, but I've seen it enforced exactly as you wrote it at Borgata TWICE in NL games. The rule seems to be more apt for limit games, but whatever. Situations were more or less identical... a raise, player left to act, and player on that player's left announces "call." Middle player says raise, and suddenly the verbal caller (who acted out of turn) now has to call two raises instead of one... whatever the total (including for all his chips one of the times I saw it, DJ was dealing). Ugly.

MisterKing · #10 10-02-2005, 11:31 PM

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Now total pot is (171)
Maulik Folds (bad fold that is in Part II)
The flop is 6 7 2r
SB pushes for 80
Whats your play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero taunts Maulik for his vaginal fold and then calls, and it isn't even close. http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1255615

Villain probably has an overpair... aces or kings, in which case your OESD and runner-runner draw is about a 2:1 dog. You're getting a nice overlay. If he has AK or something silly like that (tag him and follow him to whatever table he goes to!), you're even better off since your pair outs are live.