$200 PLHE Out of Position Heads-up

goodguy_1 · #1 06-21-2005, 09:57 AM

Villain is very much a LAG. Is there anyway to play this better and not have to lose so much?
Should I bet half the pot on the turn? ..this tack would make me less pot committed and if raised I could get away from the hand. I dont think checking the turn is an option. I called the river because the flop was so "drawy" but didnt feel good about it at all.

Is there a way I can get away from this hand heads-up?

How do you play these type of hands ie overpairs out-of position heads-up on a fairly benign board?

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

Button ($277.5)
SB ($115.55)
BB ($173.91)
UTG ($162)
UTG+1 ($198)
UTG+2 ($281)
MP1 ($116.84)
Hero ($202.5)
MP3 ($276.5)
CO ($308.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
4 folds, Hero raises to $7, 2 folds, Button calls $7, SB (poster) calls $6, 1 fold.

Flop: ($23) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $21.85, Button calls $21.85, SB folds.

Turn: ($66.70) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $63.7, Button calls $63.70.

River: ($194.10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $75, Hero calls $75.

Final Pot: $344.10

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Ah (one pair, aces).
Button has 8h 9s (two pair, nines and eights).
Outcome: Button wins $344.10.

-Skeme- · #2 06-21-2005, 10:04 AM

What kind of LAG is he? Will he call down with mediocre one pair hands? Is he thinking at all? Or just a total fool.

I don't think I'm potting the turn. And I'm defenitely not betting river. Good check, did you ever consider folding? Tough spot. I really doubt you're good on this river too often, but it's really hard to fold. Lots of smaller overpairs and other hands he could have, but I don't see many of them betting here.

fuzzbox · #3 06-21-2005, 10:07 AM

Looks pretty good. If he is as lag as you say - why is he not raising you when he hits his top two on the turn ?

The river is an obvious value bet and almost certainly not a bluff - better players than me should get away here ... I mean why does he not push the river - you have 100 or so left on the river and he bets 75 of it .... that is really suspicious.

As I said - it would take a better player than I - but its almost certainly a value bet.

goodguy_1 · #4 06-21-2005, 10:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good check, did you ever consider folding? Tough spot. I really doubt you're good on this river too often, but it's really hard to fold. Lots of smaller overpairs and other hands he could have, but I don't see many of them betting here.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes my instincts told me to muck it because the $75 bet just looked like a bet he wanted called. If he'd raised the turn I could get way from it easily. The board eventu the flush didnt hit was not as benign as I originally posted..alot of funky straight possibilities.

I clearly agree that of two scenarios ie scenario#1 he has a made hand:two-pair,straight or a set heavily outweighs scenario#2 a busted flush draw,straight draw or middling pair.

The river call I was getting $269.10 for my $75 call about 3.50-1...very close.Was scenario#1 3 1/2 times more likely than scenario#2.. The player was a LAG but I had only been playing at this table for about 15 minutes..so I might have underestimated his playing ability...if that was the case folding was clearly the better play. PLHE is very difficult to play out of position..more so than NLHE ..at least for me.

jhall23 · #5 06-21-2005, 10:29 AM

In these situations I like betting 1/2 - 2/3 pot on the turn. No need to bet the full pot since they will be calling incorrectly with draws even if you bet 1/2 pot and it saves you money when you are behind.

Nothing less than 1/2 pot though as it could make villian come over the top with a worse hand possibly making you fold the best hand.

goodguy_1 · #6 06-21-2005, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks pretty good. If he is as lag as you say - why is he not raising you when he hits his top two on the turn ?

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe because he is a LAG that plays well [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] The best PLHE players are the thinking LAGS.

Clearly just smooth calling is a better play here than raising. He knows I have an overpair when I pot it twice. He made a good play. I need to lay this hand down on the river more often than I think.

goodguy_1 · #7 06-21-2005, 10:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In these situations I like betting 1/2 - 2/3 pot on the turn. No need to bet the full pot since they will be calling incorrectly with draws even if you bet 1/2 pot and it saves you money when you are behind.

Nothing less than 1/2 pot though as it could make villian come over the top with a worse hand possibly making you fold the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

thnx j ..that's what I was thinking also...I think this is the best tack in retrospect. I'm all for more clearly defining my hand and I think a 1/2 pot -2/3 pot bet does that.. at the same time it makes me less comitted to the hand.

intheflatfield · #8 06-21-2005, 10:57 AM

Man, this is just the kind of hand that I usually end up calling the bet on the river, just as you did and lose my stack.

After looking at the hand in retrospect, You almost have to know your'e beat, especially after he called the out of posision PFR and 2 pot size bets and then leads into you..

It seems like a no-brainer and yet I rarely find myself laying down AA after committing half my chips.

Thanks for the post.

montechristo · #9 06-21-2005, 06:22 PM

nice post. I think this is very hard to laydown HU as well. before I looked at the results I thought "wow that sucks he caught his 8 on the turn" but in the heat of battle don't think I could lay this down.