Limit Raising Question Ruling

Playing in the $4/$8 with usually $2 chips. ANyway due to frequent rebuys by player A he is holding quite a few $5 chips. On the turn player A Bets couple of callers Player B Raises Player A then places 4 $5 chips in and says raise a split second after he places the chips in. Dealer then informs him that it is a call because he is short $4. Player A realises then goes to put out an extra chip and the dealer says he can't do that because he has already called. Of course the whole table kicks up a fuss as his obvious intension was to raise. But the dealer maintains that one chip over means a call. I say to him is that your rule or the cardroom. Of course the dealer gets all upset because everyone is yelling at him and he says to me "nah I just made it up." I of course shut my mouth wait till after the hand and then politely say to him that I didn't mean to be rude I just wanted to be sure of the rule for future reference as I understood it was the half bet rule. He explains that the amount of the bet doesn't matter and that one chip over means a call.

Is this a weird ruling and should I of just shut my mouth?

The good news was that everyone at the table was getting angry at the dealer not each other so the game remained friendly. It probably helped that this was the dealers last hand.

Cheers
Liam

[magicmntn]

The dealer was correct. If player A would have verbally declared the raise before crossing the line, he could then go back and retrieve the extra chip. However, with no verbal indication, once his chips hit the line he could only call, unless of course he threw 5 chips in which would be sufficient for a raise. The rule is larger denomination chips are considered a call unless verbally declared

Problem is......what line? BY putting the chips in front of him does this count? And because it didn't impact on anybody should he have just let it go?

[mosch]

This is a standard ruling. If you're short of a raise, or if you use a large value chip without declaring a raise, it's a call despite the obvious intentions.

Nits constantly use this as a rule-based angle shoot, so it's good to learn the lesson and learn it early.

[Rick Nebiolo]

If the half bet rule is in place (the standard for limit in progressive clubs), then Player A bet $8, Player B raised to $16, and Player C raised to $20 when he should have raised to $24. Since $20 is half way to the correct raise, it should have been corrected to $24.

As an aside, 4/8 with $1 chips tends to have more action.

~ Rick

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
If the half bet rule is in place (the standard for limit in progressive clubs), then Player A bet $8, Player B raised to $16, and Player C raised to $20 when he should have raised to $24. Since $20 is half way to the correct raise, it should have been corrected to $24.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't come up in LA becasue the play limit with one color of chips (as they should). This is not a half bet situation becasue if he wanted to call $16 with $5 chips he would also put in $20 so this is a call.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the half bet rule is in place (the standard for limit in progressive clubs), then Player A bet $8, Player B raised to $16, and Player C raised to $20 when he should have raised to $24. Since $20 is half way to the correct raise, it should have been corrected to $24.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't come up in LA becasue the play limit with one color of chips (as they should). This is not a half bet situation becasue if he wanted to call $16 with $5 chips he would also put in $20 so this is a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I overlooked this and Randy is correct. Because Player B did not say raise, putting in four $5 chips chips constitutes a call of the preceding raise to $16. Had he put in ten $2 chips, the bet would be corrected to a reraise using the half bet rule.

Putting in an oversized chip (or oversized chips) without saying raise means you call. If you want to raise you need to say raise when putting in the big chip(s). If you are the lead bettor, then the oversized bet speaks for itself.

~ Rick

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the half bet rule is in place (the standard for limit in progressive clubs), then Player A bet $8, Player B raised to $16, and Player C raised to $20 when he should have raised to $24. Since $20 is half way to the correct raise, it should have been corrected to $24.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't come up in LA becasue the play limit with one color of chips (as they should). This is not a half bet situation becasue if he wanted to call $16 with $5 chips he would also put in $20 so this is a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I overlooked this and Randy is correct. Because Player B did not say raise, putting in four $5 chips chips constitutes a call of the preceding raise to $16. Had he put in ten $2 chips, the bet would be corrected to a reraise using the half bet rule.

Putting in an oversized chip (or oversized chips) without saying raise means you call. If you want to raise you need to say raise when putting in the big chip(s). If you are the lead bettor, then the oversized bet speaks for itself.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I'm confused as to two things. According to original poster Player A bet $8, Player B raised, THEN PLAYER A (NOT PLAYER C) put out 4 $5 chips. Now the way I read that player A has now put out a total of $28 and in fact is not 4 short but owed $4 change. perhaps that was a mistake in the way OP explained the situation.

Second I am confused by your explanation of the oversized chip rule, the way this rule has always been explained to me (with one exception) has been that putting out a SINGLE oversized chip is a call unless there is a verbal declaration of a raise. In this case the bet involved the player betting with 4 chips not a single chip and therefore the oversize chip rule would not apply.

This seems to be consistent with Robert's Rules

[ QUOTE ]
15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet , but do not announce a raise , you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet .

[/ QUOTE ]

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Second I am confused by your explanation of the oversized chip rule, the way this rule has always been explained to me (with one exception) has been that putting out a SINGLE oversized chip is a call unless there is a verbal declaration of a raise. In this case the bet involved the player betting with 4 chips not a single chip and therefore the oversize chip rule would not apply.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is written that way as that is the normal context it comes up in, but it applies here also (I repleid directly to Rick becasue somethign is wrong with the original post and I didn't feel like sorting it out). If limit is only played with one color of chip this situation doesn't come up (if they get down to relaly big chips one will cover the bet and this isn't an issue).

An additional rule to address this cold be helpful, but if they were my rules the ruel I would add to address this would be "players shall only play with the chips that are most commonly used in the game they are playing."