Question for Canada guys with Poker ONLY income who pay child support

[DavidC]

Thanks for the info, bro!

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a lawyer...

But, I think breaking the terms of the custody arrangement by not paying the agreed upon child support is grounds for amending the custody agreement and denying or restricting access.


[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting... I'd never considered that they might be in the same contract.

Like, can you pay more to get more time with the child? How about just buying the child outright? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Obviously I'm being sarcastic here, but legally the two issues seem separate.

If they're part of the same contract, though, that would be creepy...

I'm really really glad I've never had to deal with this sort of thing.

--Dave.

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting... I'd never considered that they might be in the same contract.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm probably wrong about it being the same contract, or part of the same court order. But, faiure to follow the child support court order, just like failure to follow any court order, or being convicted of a crime, would be something the judge would consider when custody is revisited. And, where the court order was directly related to parenting, I would think it would have particular relevance.

One thing I think we can all agree upon: your attorney should know how to handle these things. If your attorney is confused or in over his head, I'd seriously consider a new attorney. Access to your son is too important to let a bumbling attorney mess up. (Obviously also too important to rely upon any advice you may get in a 2+2 forum.) Get an attorney who knows what he is doing.

[johnnydingles]

Just wanted to clear a few things up here. I missed a few things in my first post. First off, yes, BOTH access, AND support are part of the same court order we have and being discussed at the same time in court now.

We already have a court order because i took her to court last year for not letting me see my son and playing all these games. He is 4 and I have paid support from the start, and agreed on an imputed income in court last year of $28,000 or so as that sounded fair, and by no means do I want to just pay nothing. At the time, we had no court order and I was buying ALL his clothes, ALL the food, EVERYTHING in his room, ALL toys, etc, you get the point. She has been on welfare since he was born and I had been helping out probably $500 a month or so with everything combined. When we went to court, she thought if she told the judge I had never paid(I didn't get reciepts from here, but I kept them for everything I bought, I know I'm stupid), that she would get 3 years back pay and be rich in her mind. This is besides the fact that she wasn't declaring this to welfare as welfare would have taken anything I pay off her cheque. So her big mouth made me have to pay the governement each month, and she now LOSES all the money i was giving her, and the money I pay each month now, she gets ZERO of as it comes off her welfare. You can see she isn't so smart already.

So anyway, we got the court order for me to see him 3 times a week and things were ok for a few months, until she found out that the police will NOT enforce the order unless it clearly states on the court order that they can. So I haven't seen my son for 5 months and i've been taking her to court for contempt of the order. To defend herself and try to screw me she came up with all the millions of dollars I make and told the judge I mistreat my son and don't really want to see him. As the judge is really old fashioned, he thinks the father should provide EVERYTHING for the family and be a man, blah blah blah. I have no problem helping out, but I'm not paying for her to stay home on her ass and go drinking every night which she does. She is getting cut off welfare because my son started school this year and she has to get a job now finally and sees me as a way out of this.

So heres the problem, it isn't that my lawyer doesn't know what he is doing, or isn't good. Its that noone has ever been involved in a case where gambling is the sole income. I've called every lawyer in 3 cities and noone knows what to do. She has papers that look like proof of all this money i'm winning, but how do you PROVE i'm not, especially to someone who has no clue about poker?? And to try to explain to the judge that this is all wrong doesn't help much because its basically my word against hers, and she has the printouts from the internet that look pretty convincing to someone with no clue about poker. My mom sees a WPT tourney on tv and she is astonished why the guy with a million "chips" didn't leave when he was up and how he lost all his all money. Its hard explaining to someone that the chips are "play" money and don't really have a value.

Also, to be clear, NOT paying child support is NOT grounds to keep my son away, even if I wasn't paying.

The "cannot claim illegal income as income" line doesn't work so well as this is what Al Capone went to prison for. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Government doesn't care if income is illegal, they still want their cut.

With the law being so gray on gabmbling income being taxable in Canada, and not many cases before with gambling as sole income, its not an easy matter. I know this isn't the best place to seek advice, but I don't have many options left and thought someone might have dealt with this before. Its bad enough I can't see my son, but I might get stuck paying thousands a month in child support that I can't afford. And if I choose to NOT pay the support they say, in Canada, they garnish wages(no big deal), BUT they also take your drivers license away and many other things, so stiffing them is not an option. Funny thing is, shes been breaking the court order for months, and she gets no consequences, nice system we have.

[Victor]

heres how you prove you arent making all this money: bring your computer into the courtroom and log into a small tourney. this should show any reasonable person that after buying in to a 10$ tourney you dont magically gain 1000$.

[sternroolz]

For court purposes it sounds like you should be proving to the court what tournaments are all about...that however much you have in tournament chips is meaningless. To that end, I suggest you purchase the WPT DVD and bring it with you to court. Hand it to the Judge. Obtain a copy of the rules and setup for a WPT tournament. Finally, obtain the results of the WPT tourneys you supposedly monied in and show the judge how your name is no where to be found. I cannot fathom why your attorney has not done these things.

I would fire your attorney. I would hire another attorney at a reduced rate only for the purposes of appearing in court and exercising your rights, filing paper work, etc. I would present your own case. Show the judge exactly how much you have via your money transfer records, bank accounts, rent or mortgage payments, any other fixed expenses etc. Come clean about what you make, about the volitile nature of your income, etc. Tell the truth. Even offer that if you do score big(say $100K+) in one of these tournaments, you will set aside 10% as a college/trust fund for your son. Demonstrate exactly what you are capable of doing and why.

Normally I would never give the above advice, but you are in a bad situation with a bad attorney. Plus it involves your son. The upside of being truthful in statements and truthful in disclosure is tremendous here.

BTW, hope this is a lesson for everyone to listed and be a disciple of Tom Leykis.

[Peter666]

You need a third party noted poker authourity to come in and explain the rules of the game to the judge and answer all those types of questions. If it works great. Hopefully this will allow some sort of reasonable agreement to be worked out.

If not, stop paying your wife as you have 0 reportable income and try to get things for your kid on your own, not through her.

You are obviously not dealing with very intelligent or reasonable people here, and you will be screwed by the system...you already are.

See, my advice about putting your ex wife into a grave state of fear was not exactly a joke. Take as much money as you can, take your son and move somewhere else. You will be between a rock and a hard place. I have heard of men in this situation who have not seen their children for many years and even decades. Life is too short.

[WDC]

I am not in Canada but I do practice family law so I am going to give this a shot. I am not your attorney and you are not my client. This is just friendly advice. I am not licensed to paractice in Canada.

A couple of things I would want if I were representing you. Your complete records for the year. Second I would like your affidavit explaining your records and how you make money. Third I would want an affidavit from a tournament poker expert explaining who tournaments are paid etc. I would be thinking a tournament director from a local cardroom or something like that. I would also get affidavits from WPT events stating exactly how much you were paid.


If you have had a really good year you might be screwed a little but your attorney should be able to make an argument on imputing income basded on average s or the like. I would treat you almost like a commissioned based employee. Good Luck.

DISCLAIMER. I AM NOT YOUR ATTORNEY AND YOU ARE NOT MY CLIENT. I AM NOT LICENSED IN CANADA ANDS I HAVE NOT REVIEWED THE APPLICIBLE LAWS. THIS ADVICE IS GENERAL AND IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO PRACTICE LAW IN CANADA.

[jennifer29]

Hey Johnny, our situations are VERY similar. PM me if you like but here is what i KNOW for sure. Get a good lawyer, Harper Jaskot in Hamilton are the best i've ever had. The retainer will be 5k and they are very expensive. What you and i do for a living is a big prob in custody access cases. I had one judge mention what i did for a living 3 times in a judgement ( didn't mention her coke addiction once ). Second pay whatever CS is ordered, on time all the time, custody-access and CS are 2 seperate issues. If she denies access still pay ( by check ). Third , NEVER miss an access day. Fourth, keep good records of CS and access and everything else, you may need it. Fifth, try not to talk to her much and if you do tell her how bad you are running. Good luck.

[johnnydingles]

Hey WDC, thanks for the help. The problems with affidavits and stuff like that are each time we've been in court, the judge has not ONCE even looked at the folder or all the proof and documents we've submitted. He basically comes in, asks the lawyers whats up, and tries to move on as fast as possible. His only concern is I support "my family", and doesn't care, or punish my ex for being in contempt and not letting me see my son. Its been 5 months and many court dates and not once has he attempted to try to make her let me see my son, or care about her contempt. The only good thing that has happened is we've gotten the Office of the Childrens Lawyer involved so there is someone to speak for my son now. I was told the judge will pretty much come in and listen to whatever the Childrens lawyer suggests and make his decision based on that. He won't even look at our evidence as there are so many cases for the day he wants people out. I've got phone records, police records and everything else that prove over and over and over that she is a liar, an alcoholic, child abuser, etc, etc, etc. And the judge hasn't even glanced at them or asked about them. First time we went to court, I submitted tons of proof of child support i've paid, and tons of other evidence, and the only thing he heard was her say I don't pay, and I got 50 lectures throughout the day how I need to pay. I tell him look in the folder for proof and he just says I have to pay. I've heard I have a really tough, and old fashioned judge who see countless fathers in there each day not paying and not wanting to see their children. I'd figure he would see someone who does pay and wants to see their son, and he would be sympathetic, but I think he is so jaded from all the other cases he automatically takes the womans side. I'm in a tough spot here.