Betting aggressively on average hands, good idea?

#1 08-23-2005, 10:42 AM

Here's an example of the sort of thing I see at the .50/1.00 rooms:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
3 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls.

River: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Hero has Ac 6c (one pair, aces).
Button has Kc Ad (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Button wins 10 BB.

There are two possibilities with a hand like mine after the flop. One, just give up and fold to any betting, I missed my flush. The 2nd is to bet and see if anyone else has me beat.

The problem with this, at the partypoker .50/1.00 tables at least, is that half the players at these tables will just check and call to the river regardless of what they have. Maybe they have nothing at all and are hoping to improve, maybe they have a small pair and keep calling hoping to hit a set, or maybe they flopped a strong hand but don't like to bet.

So yeah, betting aggressively will knock a bunch of players out of the pot, by the river many of them will be gone, but the ones remaining will likely be the ones with the best hands. So, is betting on middle pair or top pair with a weak kicker really +EV when faced with tables where half the opponents won't raise or fold?

davelin · #2 08-23-2005, 10:47 AM

Don't open-limp with this hand. These players make you money in the long-run.

Cheshire · #3 08-23-2005, 10:57 AM

Other then the preflop limp, I probably would have folded. I think you played it fine. When they call they could very easily have KQ, KJ, Q10 ect. If you are going to play A-6s and an ace comes with no one showing aggression you cant just check it through, giving everyone chances to draw out for free. It sucks that the other player flopped two pair, but if it makes you feel better he/she played it horribly.
Tables where no one bets with out the nuts and will call with any part of the flop are really annoying because you never know if you are ahead or behind. I usually just leave them and try and find a table with a couple of very aggressive players and some people who call too much.

@bsolute_luck · #4 08-23-2005, 10:58 AM

just work on your reads that's all. like davelin said, you'll win against them in the long run.

i'd like to ammend what davelin said: don't open limp with this hand from this position. the danger with this hand is what you just experienced. as you continue to play and learn you'll figure out when to check/fold, bet out, check/call, and check/raise postflop with it.

edit: i'll leave what i originally put in, but at a loose/passive table, MP1 is still EP and i limp this too.

#5 08-23-2005, 11:10 AM

So, why shouldn't I open limp from this position with this hand?

bozlax · #6 08-23-2005, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i'd like to ammend what davelin said: don't open limp with this hand from this position. the danger with this hand is what you just experienced. as you continue to play and learn you'll figure out when to check/fold, bet out, check/call, and check/raise postflop with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'd like to amend (or perhaps clarify) what you said. Don't open-limp this from anywhere. If you have it in EP or EMP with fewer than 2 limpers or a raise ahead of you, you should fold it. If it's folded to you in LMP or LP you should be raising it, against most .5/1 competition. Yeah?

davelin · #7 08-23-2005, 11:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd like to ammend what davelin said: don't open limp with this hand from this position. the danger with this hand is what you just experienced. as you continue to play and learn you'll figure out when to check/fold, bet out, check/call, and check/raise postflop with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'd like to amend (or perhaps clarify) what you said. Don't open-limp this from anywhere. If you have it in EP or EMP with fewer than 2 limpers or a raise ahead of you, you should fold it. If it's folded to you in LMP or LP you should be raising it, against most .5/1 competition. Yeah?

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant to clarify position here. In EP I think it's fine to open-limp with this hand.

@bsolute_luck · #8 08-23-2005, 11:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So, why shouldn't I open limp from this position with this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

i edited my first post thinking MP1 was later in the hand, but at a loose/passive table i limp this EP all the time. davelin is a self-admitted tightie so maybe that's why he doesn't [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

if it was later in position, it is a raise/fold situation. as i said earlier, you've just seen why it is dangerous.

this hand IMO: very coordinated, small pot, you have only 2 redraws if behind to another single paired A (like A3 or something), and even if your hand could be best, there are a ton of redraws and your position sux. check/fold in this situation.

davelin · #9 08-23-2005, 11:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, why shouldn't I open limp from this position with this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

i edited my first post thinking MP1 was later in the hand, but at a loose/passive table i limp this EP all the time. davelin is a self-admitted tightie so maybe that's why he doesn't [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, I meant to clarify in this position. I open limp with Axs all the time in EP.

#10 08-23-2005, 11:32 AM

Thanks for the responses. I know I need to look more into my preflop play, at this point I just follow SSHE's preflop charts, the chart for loose tables pretty much.