A Live PL Omaha hand that really got to me

Biggenx · #1 10-29-2005, 11:27 PM

Ok, every week or so I play in a live mixed game (dealers choice) that includes NL holdem, FL stud, and PL omaha. Normally it's a short handed game, and with the same 3-5 guys.

So this one guy Terrence doesn't like me all that much, he's a horrible player and i think i may have offended his manhood or something by actually knowing something about poker.

here's the hand, i have xKJ9x two hearts, 4 limp to the flop, 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], UTG bets $1, Terrence calls and i raise the pot, UTG folds, and Terrence calls, the turn is a T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and Terrence bets the pot.

I call and the river is a blank, Terrence is first to act and bets the pot, which is well over $20. I think about it for quit a while and fold.

Terrence then flips over J9 and says " I had it. "

i was like "what do you mean", and he just repeated that he had it.

Then, during the next hand he says something like, 'i knew you had the straight, that you couldn't call'

When he said that, it affected me so deeply, first off this is a friendlyish game, secondly everyone plays fairly straight forward- value betting, bluffing, semibluffing. This hand just seemed oddly personal, and if he really did what he claims he did, he out played me more than i've ever been outplayed.

But certain things about the hand make me doubt whether he could make the play intentionally. First, he was first to speak so the board pairing Tens should have made him nervous to bet out like he did. The river bet could have been done by anyone since as soon as he finished betting the turn i gave out plenty of tells that let everyone know i hated the board pairing.

Then of course there's when Terrence flipped over the J9 saying he had it. As if to relieve me that he wasn't bluffing.

Omaha is a tuff game shorthanded

Jim T · #2 10-29-2005, 11:40 PM

"if he really did what he claims he did, he out played me more than i've ever been outplayed. "

Do you really believe that?

Biggenx · #3 10-29-2005, 11:49 PM

i've probably been more outplayed in online games. But not live.

What i mean is i've never lost a hand in that manner, that i've been aware of. It seems like a strange hand, he didn't bluff me, yet he wasn't value betting. I'm guessing i'd see this sort of thing more playing Hi/Lo.

Spellmen · #4 10-30-2005, 04:23 AM

I think if you are a pretty straightfoward player then it is an easy spot to bluff. When you raise the flop I know you had the nuts, so since I only have a split I am going to push you out since it is the only way I can win all the pot

Tilt · #5 10-30-2005, 09:25 AM

He made a play I make all the time. Its a common play with a shared straight.

Thet being said, why call the turn bet if you wont call the river? What are you beating here but a stone cold bluff? What are you giving up by folding...is 1/2 the pot worth it?

And if you are going to raise KJ9x post sized preflop, you need to be prepared to pick off bluffs from time to time.

Oh and last, your comment about this affecting you deeply suggests that your ego is tied up in your poker play. You need to play egoless poker to be very successful. Its not about manhood or bragging rights as to who is smarter. Its just a series of financial transactions and decisions that need to be made rationally at every turn.

Biggenx · #6 10-30-2005, 04:41 PM

I view playing live with friends totally different than playing online. Online is business, it's cold, and i play mercilessly, i'm not trying to look good or impress anyone.

But when i play with my friends, I'm the "poker pro", and i feel pressure to play at a certain level above them. There's no question i'm the better poker player, but as we all know, being better at poker isn't always obvious.

this particular hand took place after a long stretch of brutal suck outs and cold hands.

the reason i didn't call the river was because i didn't have any money left, i had rebought twice and decided to pick a better spot. That and because this guy i was playing against was just as likely to have a full boat there, and i didn't expect him to bet so much on the river.

Tilt · #7 10-31-2005, 11:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But when i play with my friends, I'm the "poker pro", and i feel pressure to play at a certain level above them. There's no question i'm the better poker player, but as we all know, being better at poker isn't always obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being the better poker player is rarely going to manifest itself in a few live hands. A few hands, one session, even one week of play means very little about your skill. So why pin your self esteem to them?

Also, no matter how good you get, there will always be players who give you trouble. Part of being good is adjusting to (or avoiding) your bad matchups. Just because a certain player - or certain type of player - presents problems to your game doesn't mean that you are not a good player. Egotistically smashing your head against that same player/player type without an adjustment and expecting a different result, however, is bad play.

Biggenx · #8 10-31-2005, 07:47 PM

This isn't full ring, it's impossible to avoid another player when there's only a few people playing. i don't know what to do about the whole ego thing, it doesn't really affect my play too much. It's kinda a hole i dug myself into.

I think i just need to get better at omaha short handed.

naegid · #9 11-01-2005, 10:38 AM

Interesting...

If a pot raise on the flop defines your hand to a thinking player (at the levels i play many are not) what is your 'standard' line here? Calling to see a turn and puting lots of chips in if you still have the nuts?

Also, when you are in villain's shoes do you often call behind another player with a 2 flush board with the nut straight and players still to act? (This throws me a little in this particular hand).

Many thanks in advance for any comments!