I suck hard at blind vs. blind battles

private joker · #1 12-02-2005, 08:10 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
7 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks... (intending to call a bet)

Every street debatable I guess.

EDIT: No reads yet on this guy. Should I lead the river?

#2 12-02-2005, 08:26 PM

Preflop: the raise is okay. I think calling is okay too depending on the read (some might think that a sin, but I would disagree), but since he is new then I would test him since he's on your left. So I like the pfr.

I like the turn. Being more aggressive here does not gain you enough when you are ahead compared to when you are behind. River could be check call or bet fold. I like check call since I'm thinking a donk might initiate a fold if you have him beat.

gaming_mouse · #3 12-02-2005, 08:51 PM

I don't see anything wrong here. I think leading the river would be a clear mistake.

cassady · #4 12-02-2005, 08:56 PM

With top pair and a reasonable kicker, I'd 3bet the turn. Note that a lot of hands that would be beating you at this point would have 3-bet preflop. If BB is raising some ragedy-ass 2 pair, thems the breaks.

Nick C · #5 12-02-2005, 08:56 PM

These are very hard for me because (a) different players approach blind vs. blind and blind-steal situations in highly different ways, (b) those different approaches don't always correlate so well with the way the individual players in question play in general, and (c) I'm not very good in blind vs. blind situations in the first place.

All right, then. Preflop, I would raise, fold, or complete, depending on my mood. (If I were BB facing your raise, given my recent approach to defending versus SB open-raises we'd be going to a flop unless my hand was absolute garbage along the lines of 52o. But BB isn't me.)

Flop: I'm auto-betting too. I would also usually do so if I just completed preflop (unless BB had then raised preflop).

Turn: This is where I'd be at a loss. Top pair is a really good hand in this situation. But does BB know that? How much is he adjusting? Who knows. I kind of want to 3-bet, but maybe that's reckless against a 5/10 unknown.

River: Man, I at least want to donk here. But BB is probably betting anyway, unless he's letting the ace scare him (which he might, given my preflop raise). I don't know. I guess I'd probably bet-call or check-call.

belloc · #6 12-02-2005, 08:57 PM

Preflop: I like to have a stronger hand raising an unknown from the SB, but that's me.

Flop is fine, Turn I'd probably checkraise. This keeps opponents from autobetting me when I check turns with things like whiffed overcards.

River: you have to think you're beat, but you need to find out what this guy is capable of raising that turn with.

EDIT: On the turn checkraise, I guess I'd be more hesitant to do this with the baby straight cards on the flop. With a more drawless board, I think it's the right play, but here you'd hate to give a free card to a 4.

gaming_mouse · #7 12-02-2005, 09:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]

River: Man, I at least want to donk here. But BB is probably betting anyway, unless he's letting the ace scare him (which he might, given my preflop raise). I don't know. I guess I'd probably bet-call or check-call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nick,

I don't see how bet call can even be a consideration here. Please explain. You really think he's bluff raising that often? I think this is c/c and it's not close. Induced bluff >>> value bet here.

bobbyi · #8 12-02-2005, 09:19 PM

The wait you played it is good.

CanKid · #9 12-02-2005, 09:24 PM

I'm check raising this turn, 2 main reasons;
1) almost everyone bets this turn when checked to, so you gain value if he decides to call with his junk, and gain that extra bet he likely would have folded if you fired a 2nd barrel
2) if he remembers for next time, you may get that A2o to showdown cheaper than you normally would UI.

Nick C · #10 12-02-2005, 09:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

River: Man, I at least want to donk here. But BB is probably betting anyway, unless he's letting the ace scare him (which he might, given my preflop raise). I don't know. I guess I'd probably bet-call or check-call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nick,

I don't see how bet call can even be a consideration here. Please explain. You really think he's bluff raising that often? I think this is c/c and it's not close. Induced bluff >>> value bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really have an explanation, except that I find it almost impossible to read the hand of an unknown in a blind-vs.-blind situation.

The reason I want to bet is that I had top pair on the turn versus a starting hand that in theory didn't have to be very strong at all.

But, yeah, I guess if we get raised we're probably beat. Check-calling does seem better than bet-calling.

Frequently, I feel like what I'm doing in blind-steal situations at the table is playing loose and aggressive until I get played back at, when I become cautious. I don't know how to interpret my opponents' bets and raises in these spots, so often what I find myself doing is thinking, "Look, I've got a pair, and I'm not taking a line that lets you push me off of it; I'm showing down." Sometimes I miss bets this way, and sometimes I call down when I probably shouldn't.