Question re pre-flop raising...

[joshdvm]

NLHE Tournament

Blinds 400-800

UTG Folds

UTG+1 announces “raise to 1,500” and places that amount in chips toward center (mistakenly thinking blinds are still 200-400)

Dealer states minimum raise is 1,600 and reminds player blinds are 400-800.

Player then says “Ok, then I raise all-in” and places remaining stack (3,500 total) in center.

Dealer does not allow this; only allows minimum raise to 1,600 and makes player pull back 1,900.

Question: Was the player allowed to raise all-in or was he obligated and limited to only make the minimum raise as the dealer instructed?

I'm sure this has come up before in this forum, but probably not this exact scenario so thanks in advance for your input.

--Joshdvm

[Cin0s3]

This same situation came up in a game i was in last week, everyone thought that the guy could just raise the minimum in that situation. But after some thought this week I kind of thought that if he declared a bet and the bet/rasie was not correct then it was an invalid bet and he could declare a new bet/raise. I dont the exact ruling but that kind oif made sense.

[Socrates]

He can only rasie the minimum and he's bound to that as well (e.g. - he can't decide to just call)

[Lottery Larry]

1600 is the raise.

[joshdvm]

Thanks for the replies.

Questions:

A) What is the basis (i.e., underlying principle) for this decision?

B) What reference source can we consult for future rules issues such as this?

Thanks again,

--Joshdvm

[hachkc]

Here is an excerpt from Robert's Rules. I believe the 2nd to last sentence covers this issue.

"16. All wagers and calls of an improperly low amount must be brought up to proper size if the error is discovered before the betting round has been completed. This includes actions such as betting a lower amount than the minimum bring-in (other than going all-in) and betting the lower limit on an upper limit betting round. If a wager is supposed to be made in a rounded off amount, is not, and must be corrected, it shall be changed to the proper amount nearest in size. No one who has acted may change a call to a raise because the wager size has been changed."



The point here is you can purposely declare an invalid raise amount to determine your opponents reaction. If you declare a less than min raise amount and your opponent looks like he's going to call you shouldn't be able to change it to a larger raise or all-in.

Never seen this in a home game, but I'd only allow the min. as well. Otherwise, the player could read the reaction of the opposing player to determine if he should "reraise" all-in or just go with the original min. bet.