A couple check up hands

Stork · #1 11-08-2005, 11:49 PM

After taking a break from limit poker for a couple months, im just now getting back into the swing of things, and as such wanted to make sure im not straying too far off the right path. on to the hands:

first hand: appropriate action with QQ?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Button calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, [color=#CC3333]BB raises, UTG folds, Button calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero 3-bets, [color=#CC3333]BB caps, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, [color=#CC3333]BB raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (16 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)
Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]BB bets, [color=#CC3333]Button raises, Hero folds, [color=#CC3333]BB 3-bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

2nd hand: best flop line?
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]2 folds, [color=#CC3333]CO raises, Button calls, [color=#666666]1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, CO calls, Button folds.

River: (6.66 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

last hand, since i know posts with multiple hands in them suck- another 66er, just cause i'm already there in pt. main question is on river.
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, [color=#666666]1 fold, Button calls, [color=#666666]2 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (5.66 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)
Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

Stork · #2 11-08-2005, 11:49 PM

uh... does anybody know how to make the colors work with the converter?

also, these were played on empire, not party, although it probably doesn't make a difference.

admiralfluff · #3 11-08-2005, 11:54 PM

any reads with these hands?

1: I check/call the turn, you are likely behind on the flop, and if you weren't you probably are now.

2: looks good.

3: bet/fold the river.

Stork · #4 11-09-2005, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
any reads with these hands?

[/ QUOTE ]
these hands were pretty early in the session, i had <30 hands on all these guys, so posting pt stats might be a bad idea here. as for my reads, none on any of em yet, no one's been getting out of line.

[ QUOTE ]
1: I check/call the turn, you are likely behind on the flop, and if you weren't you probably are now.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like c/c when its heads up, but with the 3rd player in there, I bet hoping that the next guy would raise to get the third guy out. I figure BB's got some kind of AT hand or something else I have good equity against enough to warrant a bet here. Maybe not, though...

[ QUOTE ]
3: bet/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm... I think I like that.

RiverTheNuts · #5 11-09-2005, 12:13 AM

why do people bet/fold so much on here?? Seriously... what worse hand is going to be calling a bet?

He didnt call 2 cold with a 5 or a deuce here, and he's definately not calling down with ace high, betting here sucks... alot

I play all 3 exactly as you, with the exception that I might check the turn on the 3 flush board and see what develops in front of me before having to make a decision, possibly protecting/value betting your hand by raising a button bet. Its one of those situations where you would like to see the players behind you actions, and another card relatively cheaply before going to war

admiralfluff · #6 11-09-2005, 12:26 AM

he didn't provide reads, but a standard 3/6 SH palyer will cold call with a lot of crap, and will call to showdown with any 5, and yes, any A. People SD with A high all the time on paired ragged boards HU.

The reason for bet/folding so much at small staks, is that most players are passive. This means that they will call with a weaker range if bet into, than they will bet if checked to.

Against super passive players who will only bet or SD with a strong hand, you could check/fold. Against loose aggressive players with propensities for bluffing, you can check/call. Against an unknown player, you assume they are an average LP player. They will call more often than they will bluff, and will almost never raise the river as a bluff. Bet/fold is clearly the best line against such players, which run rampant at 3/6 and 5/10.

RiverTheNuts · #7 11-09-2005, 12:32 AM

Touche, I just seem to always find players who will bluff this when checked to and who wont call me down with ace high. I might bet fold a more uncoordinated board, but the diamonds and straight draw out there make me want to check call a busted draw; so many people get pissed when they put in bets and miss their monster draw that they senselessly bet a river with almost zero fold equity if checked to.

Besides, this gets us to a showdown for 1 bet against an unknown... with no reads I tend towards check/calling rivers, but I see merit in both plays. I think board texture has alot to do with it.

Stork · #8 11-09-2005, 12:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why do people bet/fold so much on here?? Seriously... what worse hand is going to be calling a bet?

He didnt call 2 cold with a 5 or a deuce here, and he's definately not calling down with ace high, betting here sucks... alot

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm still not sure about the correct river play, but a couple points that IMO make it alittle closer than you think- first, I think AQ down to maybe AT may call this river. also, a problem with check calling on this specific board is that it is extremely likely that I am behind if he bets, since this is not a bluff-inducing board or situation. maybe I should just check-fold it...

[ QUOTE ]
I play all 3 exactly as you, with the exception that I might check the turn on the 3 flush board and see what develops in front of me before having to make a decision, possibly protecting/value betting your hand by raising a button bet. Its one of those situations where you would like to see the players behind you actions, and another card relatively cheaply before going to war

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeh, I think I like a check on the turn, just note that the BB would be the likely bettor here, not button, so the only way to protect my hand is to bet and hope BB raises.

#9 11-09-2005, 12:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
uh... does anybody know how to make the colors work with the converter?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe you need to change the output format from FTR to 2+2.

Drontier · #10 11-09-2005, 12:42 AM

for hand 1, after the flop cap and turn club, I hate the lead. I prefer a check call. After the 4th club hits the river, I think you have to lead and call a raise, fold if its 2 back.