blind structure affecting play

i've been getting into no-limit cash games more recently and i am curious about blind structures or levels.

i see so many tables on the site i play having blinds up $1 and many, many tables way under $1. and some of these tables have pretty decent final pot averages.

doesn't this very low blind structure take away one of the biggest weapons of a better player - namely if you have QQ or KK and 5-6 limpers ahead of you putting in $10 each, if you raise to $40 to $60, there's $50-$60 you will pick up if everyone folds (and with QQ and KK, QQ especially, you should be happy with ending it right there... if the blinds are 50c, then you've just picked up $2.50. even though if someone hits something on the flop they may bet $10-$20 or more.

it seems like the very low blind structure gives the lesser player a much better chance to see the flop very cheaply (little risk, just kiss the 50c goodbye).

is my initial assumption wrong that these 0.25-0.50 no limit games can have large pots at the end???

thanks in advance!!!

[elus2]

look at it in terms of the number of big blinds in each player's stack. most online games allow players to start of with 100bb's. now if the blinds were to increase relative to the maximimum buy-in this would lead to most of the money getting in preflop and on the flop. but better players make most of their money on the turn and river by using information gained on previous streets, controlling pot size effectively and forcing their opponents into (expensive) mistakes on the last 2 rounds of betting. therefore, good postflop players stand to make more when their stack size is large enough to allow for considerable amount of play on those streets.

[OatmealJoe]

If you look at the ratio between blinds and stack sizes, it all should be roughly the same (usually around 100BB buyin maximum)

Sure, at $0.5 blinds, you may pick up $2.50 by knocking everyone out preflop, but compared to your $50 stack, that is 1/20th you stack (5%). Similarly if your play $10 blinds, you could pick up $50 preflop, but you would likely have a $1000 stack and still only be gaining 1/20th your stack.

Also, if you have a good hand, yes, you get more when you steal the blinds, but on the flip-side, when you are a blind, you lose more when you don't defend your blind. I think it all evens out.

[kitaristi0]

Don't think of the money on the table in terms of the absolute value of the money. Think of it in terms of BB.

[yvesaint]

online you can only bring 100xBB to the table

you realize how max buy-ins and blinds work, right....

[swolfe]

you've got it backwards...the lower the blinds in relation to stacks (i.e., stack depth), the more the game becomes skill based. more money is made or won by making good post-flop decisions where the pot/bets are bigger.

the shorter the stacks, the more gamble there is...

to the poster that asked, i didn't realize it was 100 BB max buy-in (i haven't bought in at the lowest tables). i appreciate you pointing that out.

to some of the other posters.....

i do think if you have $5 or $10 blinds, then you'd probably see more people raising pre-flop in 3-5X Big Blind range.

it just seems like at 25c-50c you'd see alot bets/raises of 20XBB after the flop.

sounds like you guys know more than me, but i just can't get my head around the fact that the pre-flop play is marginalized that much.... i mean, $5 or $10 blinds are somewhat material to most players, 25c blinds are just nothing whatsoever. everyone gets in pretty cheaply if the large raise isn't economical, then your AQo that paired can be in big trouble... and with tiny blinds, you're letting all the fish draw to their a four-flush basically for close to free. if you have KK, AK etc. you want to narrow field or make them pay to see the cards if they are going to stick around (i know some argue you're building the pot for them to stick around later)

if you were in a competition to see who was the best player then all the regular arguments could hold, but i find it hard to get excited freezing out the limpers to pick up $2.50 in a cash game. (as you guys explained, people would have $50 max at table)

it just seems pointless to pick up the pot before the flop at 50 cent blinds, and every book i've read says you should be very happy picking up 5 big blinds before the flop by ending it with QQ.

anyhow, i appreciate very much everyone's responses.

[yvesaint]

seriously stop thinking in terms of money and think in terms of BBs

[kitaristi0]

[ QUOTE ]
to the original poster, i didn't realize it was 100 BB max buy-in (i haven't bought in at the lowest tables).

to some of the other posters.....

i do think if you have $5 or $10 blinds, then you'd probably see more raises in 3-5X Big Blind range.

it just seems like at 25c-50c you'd see alot more raises of 20X after the flop.

sounds like you guys know more than me, but i just can't get my head around the fact that the pre-flop play is marginalized that much.... i mean, $5 or $10 blinds are somewhat material to most players, 25c blinds are just nothing whatsoever. everyone gets in pretty cheaply if the large raise isn't economical, then your AQo that paired can be in big trouble.

if you were in a competition to see who was best then all the regular arguments could hold, but i find it hard to get excited freezing out the limpers to pick up $2.50. (as you guys explained, people would have $50 max at table)

it just seems pointless to pick up the pot before the flop, and every book i've read says you should be very happy picking up 5 big blinds before the flop by ending it with QQ.

anyhow, i appreciate everyone's responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're playing in a game with blinds 5/10 you should have $20000+ in your poker bankroll, so another 5 or 10 bucks is "just as meaningless" as the 50 cents or so in your examples.

Just on a sidenote, and I mean no offense by this, but if you think of poker in terms of absolute value of money instead of BBs, you'll quickly get into the habit of saying to yourself "sure i have 72o, but it's only 50 cents to see the flop: i call." This does not a good poker player make.

[DWarrior]

I don't think you're grasping the concept of No-Limit. Once you actually buy-in, you'll realize how fast the pot can grow, in a .5/1 NL game the pot can easily grow to $30+ dollars by the Turn.

Also, post-flop play is usually measured in relation to the pot, not in terms of blinds.

Bankroll-wise, .5/1NL is the equivalent of 2/4 Limit.

Just go and observe a table of .25/.5NL on Party Poker for a few minutes and you'll get a better idea of how the game progresses.