Two line checks against a maniac.

Stealthy · #1 10-30-2005, 07:54 AM

Pre-flop raisor in first hand and 3 bettor in 2nd is 55/55/8 over 140 hands. You can guess his style! I have real bad position on him and was close to leaving but decided he was so bad I might be able to overcome him being on my left. Facing a 3 bet pre-flop 2 hands earlier he had capped with A5 off and flopped trip 5s. He very rarely calls and will raise and re-raise any street with any pair or any overcard.

Hand 1

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises,

I only had the button to act behind me and wanted him out as there was a good chance that my 2s were good. I planned to call down from then if I got it heads up.

Hand 2

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Again with a paired flop there was a decent chance Ace high was good and I had the flush draw going for me. I used him on the flop to push the other guy out. But what about the river should I have 3 bet this?

hemstock · #2 10-30-2005, 10:28 AM

First hand. I like the raise here. There's a good chance button will fold, and then propably you can call down.

2nd hand. Cap preflop.
I would ropably 3 bet the river.

McGahee · #3 10-30-2005, 11:58 AM

They're both fantastic.
I'd probably C/R the river in Hand #2 and call a 3-bet.

FlopMe · #4 10-30-2005, 11:59 AM

Against a maniac, I'm check-raising the river in hand 2 and calling a 3-bet.

Stealthy · #5 10-30-2005, 01:10 PM

I think check-raising the river on hand 2 was probably best. He had no hand to raise with and should have just called so I only got the extra BB cause he was an idiot rather than good play on my part. Hand 2 he had AK suited and I had rivered him with my 12 outs. He raised the river with ace high!

Hand 1 I got the button out and called down and he again showed Ace high amd MHIG again.

I was also in the A5 pre-flop cap hand I mentioned earlier and it was me who 3 bet with TT for him to cap! The initial raisor had KK so I was behind anyway but I spent a lot of money showing down my overpair so the above 2 were nice pots to pick up as compensation.

bozlax · #6 10-30-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They're both fantastic.
I'd probably C/R the river in Hand #2 and call a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why C/R? You think he's suddenly going to go squeamish if you bet into him on the river? Or are you willing to put 3 bets in but not 4?

bozlax · #7 10-30-2005, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Against a maniac, I'm check-raising the river in hand 2 and calling a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, his doesn't make any sense at all to me. Why c/r? Is it because you think he'll only call if you bet out, or is it because you're willing to put in 3 bets with TPTK against a maniac but not 4?

FlopMe · #8 10-30-2005, 01:54 PM

Well, I'm leading the river if a diamond falls. I guess the difference is I'm willing to cap with a flush but not with top pair, maniac or not.

McGahee · #9 10-30-2005, 02:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Or are you willing to put 3 bets in but not 4?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically it - I will concede that it sounds a bit retarded and I have no logical explanation for it. I haven't played any maniacs in a while at 2/4, so I'm not sure how often we'd be good without knowing precise details about just how maniacal he is.
How far would you take this if there was no cap?

detruncate · #10 10-30-2005, 04:37 PM

I always feel a bit uncomfortable replying to hands like this when I haven't actually seen how Villain plays, but:

I like hand 1.

I 3-bet the flop in hand 2. We have between 9 and 15 outs and might be ahead to boot. I want to get some chips in the middle when I'm likely to have better than 50% equity on average.

Given your description, I bet/3-bet the river.