How Far?

Munga30 · #1 03-11-2003, 11:09 AM

PP micro. EP and MP limp and I raise in the cutoff with 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]. Button calls (darn it) and limpers call. I was hoping to buy the button. Four to the flop with 8.5 sb pot.

*** FLOP *** : [ A[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]

Not bad at all. I'm pretty sure I'm ahead and I'll get paid by aces and diamond draws. Checked to me and I auto-bet. All call. Four to the turn with about 6 BB in the pot.

*** TURN *** : [ A[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ] [ 2[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]

EP springs to life with a bet and MP folds. Like a deer in the headlights, I call. Button calls. 3 to the river with 9 BB in the pot.

*** RIVER *** : [ A[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ] [ A[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]

EP bets again, I raise, and MP calls two cold. EP reraises. Should I be a happy guy, a gambooler, or a pessimist?

Thoughts so far?

Kurn, son of Mogh · #2 03-11-2003, 11:17 AM

You've got the best hand a lot more than one out of 16 times. Call and be happy.

RockLobster · #3 03-11-2003, 11:27 AM

Hi Munga--

PP micro. EP and MP limp and I raise in the cutoff with 8 8 . Button calls (darn it) and limpers call. I was hoping to buy the button

Nice try, I'd do the same from the CO. I would likely just call from other positions, hoping to get a few more limpers in the pot.

*** FLOP *** : [ A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]
Not bad at all. I'm pretty sure I'm ahead and I'll get paid by aces and diamond draws. Checked to me and I auto-bet. All call. Four to the turn with about 6 BB in the pot.

No-brainer, good play. Too bad it didn't knock someone out, but you can only do so much.

*** TURN *** : [ A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ] [ 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]
EP springs to life with a bet and MP folds. Like a deer in the headlights, I call. Button calls. 3 to the river with 9 BB in the pot.

Uh oh. It's unlikely that he's happy with the "2"-part of the 2[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]. A call is in order for your 10-outer.

*** RIVER *** : [ A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ] [ A [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]
EP bets again, I raise, and MP calls two cold. EP reraises. Should I be a happy guy, a gambooler, or a pessimist?

I think MP = Button in this paragraph. I'm guessing that EP has K[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img], and must bet here. You raise (good). Button has shown no strength, and is afraid to throw away trip Aces.

I would cap.

Was I even close?

Punker · #4 03-11-2003, 11:34 AM

I think you've played it fine up until this point.

You may have wanted to raise the turn to define EP's hand better. However, you have to be capable of calling a 3-bet, and folding the river if you don't fill (the flip side being you should be able to go to 4 bets on the river if you do fill because you have defined your opponent's hand so clearly: the nut flush). I'd also want to have some idea how EP plays made flushes earlier; in this case, I don't think he has it. Most Paradise players will lead at a flop with flush draws, and checkraise the turn with made flushes.

On the river, it's great for you that the button is still in. This means you can call the river with the likelihood of an overcall from the button. If you raise the river, the button will likely have to fold for two more bets. By just calling, you get the same number of bets in the pot for a smaller investment.

However, I expect you lost this showdown.

Homer · #5 03-11-2003, 12:34 PM

Preflop: I prefer limping here. By raising you are going to end up in a 3 or 4-handed pot with a middle pair, which spells trouble. I would much rather limp and end up in a 5 or 6-handed pot, playing to spike a set. I would prefer raising if there was either 1 or 4-5 limpers before me.

Flop: Thank you for not slowplaying!

Turn: I would definitely raise, for a number of reasons. You are ahead most of the time in this situation, because if EP had a flush he would most likely checkraise. I'll bet he either has A2, A8 or the ace of diamonds. An additional benefit of raising is that you will force the button to call two-cold or fold if he has a big diamond. Lastly, EP may not reraise even if he has a flush, allowing you to check it through on the river if you don't fill, which costs the same as simply calling the turn and calling the river, and giving you one more bet if you fill up.

River: It looks like EP wasn't betting with the ace of diamonds on the turn (duh Homer). So, he was either betting with a made flush or two-pair, with A2 or A8. After you raise the river and EP reraises, he is almost surely full. I would definitely call the three-bet and go for the overcall from the button.

Sorry you lost to A2. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Why couldn't the river have been a 2!

-- Homer

Munga30 · #6 03-11-2003, 03:19 PM

Well, contrary to the wisdom of the masses, I capped. Button called two cold again and, after making sure I could not have quads, EP called. He showed AJ and the hand history showed button had K[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img].

As you can see, my hand reading and decision making need work. I should raise the the turn and just call the river three bet, for all the reasons given.

Homer, you prefer a limp here, but what hands would you raise in the cutoff after an EP and MP limp that you would not raise on the button? IOW, what are you "button stealing" with that doesn't have raise value on its own?