JTo in the BB

Boolean · #1 07-13-2005, 04:26 AM

This is my first table, first deposit since September. I played very sloppy and I'm looking to correct that soon. I feel my first big mistake I made was calling the flop. Getting 5-1 with two weak offsuit cards, I should've folded.

This was the first orbit so I had no real reads on any player at this point other than they're very loose.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.05.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO folds, SB calls.

At this point I felt the pot was rather big, laying me 11:1, and I have middle pair with a back-door straight draw. There are no flush draws on the board, so I give myself 6.5 outs total. Should I discount this on the off chance I'm up against QQ or JJ?

I'm probably behind here, but with my raise, I force others to call 2-cold, and I can buy a free-card on the turn.

Turn: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

The pot is laying me 10:1 and I have an open-ended straight draw as well as outs to 2-pair or better. I call with the intention of folding UI on the river.

River: (12 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Thoughts?

Wizard0965 · #2 07-13-2005, 04:42 AM

With so many PF limpers I don't mind the PF call. I would call on the river and fold the turn UI. If you are hoping to get the straight than you want more people in so making them call two cold is going to drive them out more often than not. You pick up the OESD on the turn so I'd call again. No straight on the river makes it easier to fold the river blank with a smaller pot than what you drove it up to with your flop raise.

Bodhi · #3 07-13-2005, 04:44 AM

Howabout a crying call on the river? Getting 12:1, with 2nd best pair, it is probably a smaller mistake than folding if folding is a mistake.

Btw, I fold preflop. Offsuit hands out of position aren't so great, and most don't realize that JTo is much weaker than JTs (group 5 vs group 3).

Eeegah · #4 07-13-2005, 04:52 AM

(grunching)

Preflop: Flop hell, against a raise you're so dominated it's not even funny, and you don't have sooted to back you up. Fold preflop. You went on though, so...

On the flop: Let's see, of raising hands we're ahead of AK, TT, 99...uh, that's it! Everything else and you're again in trouble, and you can't be sure of a win if you spike trips or two pair. And that's just the BB; with 3 others behind you there's almost a 50-50 chance of one of them having a queen even if they limped with any two cards. Fold the flop. You went on though, so...

Turn: Okay, you have your straight draw. Yeah at this point you may as well call it, but with a one-card draw don't be surprised if you split.

River: No kidding.

silkyslim · #5 07-13-2005, 05:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Howabout a crying call on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
From SSH: Never forget about players behind you. I like the fold on the river.

@bsolute_luck · #6 07-13-2005, 06:00 AM

i'm not sure what to say to this hand. i just read 2 threads about QQ in 2/4 stakes and 2 posters that raised JTo and capped the river when a J falls though an A came on the turn... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

so once you post the results, i base my comments on whether you won the hand or not. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

other than that, preflop is meh (again a previous post calls it "gay", so why comment right?). flop is IMO the crux of the hand. the turn is an obvious call with an OESD, but w/o reads on SB's raising standards, it's difficult to say, but couldn't he possibly donkbet this with TT?

i wouldn't think SB is trying to steal with 2 people already in (disregarding poster). So i think he would have to have a pretty strong hand: overcards or high pocket pair 99+ so i think against his range of hands, you should fold the flop.

aK13 · #7 07-13-2005, 06:08 AM

I don't mind the flop.

I like the flop and turn.

I'm still deciding on what to do on the river...I think folding is best...as the board is pretty raggy and I can't imagine theres much UTG+1 is calling all the way down with that you're beating.

@bsolute_luck · #8 07-13-2005, 06:18 AM

if you don't mind the flop could you explain to me why and based on what?

i don't think it is horrible, but we're beating only a few of the possible holdings. w/o reads, SB's range could be (and i'll give extra just in case):

AA-77, AK-A9, KQ-KT, QJ-Q9. is this too limiting?

and then from that we have to figure out which ones he'd donkbet on the turn that would make calling the river okay (and with people behind us still calling).

ArturiusX · #9 07-13-2005, 06:45 AM

I like it all. Its raise or fold on the turn.

One thing to think about is on the flop how tight sb is. If hes really tight and predictable, I can fold this. We're a major dog vs AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and AK has tons of outs plus reverse implied odds if we hit our two pair.

Folding this would be fine too, infact I lean towards folding the flop.

@bsolute_luck · #10 07-13-2005, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like it all. Its raise or fold on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you mean the turn or flop? the turn i think is easily a call more than a raise since it appears we need to hit a straight to win.

i'd agree the flop is a raise or fold situation.