One pair KK's, What do I do??

Arm187r · #1 06-24-2005, 12:37 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB caps $2 (All-In), UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (18 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (34 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 40 BB

3rd hand at the table no reads. I suspect the table is loose since avg pot is $11 thats why I choose to sit at it.
I didn't cap pre-flop cuz I thought I'd disguise my hand, and wait till the turn to start popping (fancy play syndrome??)
I raised the turn hoping to shut people out, but it didn't go as planned: I'm worried that one of the raiser's has AA or QQ, and the other guy is maybe raising with Q,10.
I like the river card, its not exactly a K but it definitely has to help me more than it hurts me i think.(beating any two pair now but dead to a full-house)
I hated calling two cold with one pair. The pot is F-ing huge, but I'd hate folding a winner here more than losing two measely bets. (which I thought about for a FEW LONG SECS and thus talked myself into a call) I can't conceive raising here anyone raise the river??
So after all this how should I have played this hand???

aK13 · #2 06-24-2005, 01:01 AM

$11 table probably means there's a maniac somewhere...as normally the max I see is about $8.

You really need to cap preflop, and 3bet the flop. There are so many people in the pot and it's your first couple hands, so there's no need to disguise anything.

Arm187r · #3 06-24-2005, 03:16 AM

I didn't think how a maniac would increase the avg on the table so much thats a good tip to think about (especially since UTG+2 raised 10 straight hands after this till he went broke and left).

It did get capped preflop and on the flop which is good even though I didn't put in any raises. I didn't think about the fact that the table wouldn't know I'm a tight player since I just sat down. I do normally raise PF and on a flop like this, but since I went in suspecting the table was loose I thought I would need to PROTECT my hand since I have no draws and the only way I figured I could do that in this multiway pot was to wait for a blank on the turn and raise even if I was against AA's I was hoping to limit the field or get it headsup. I went in thinking defensively, which I know isn't exactly aggressive poker. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Anyone else have other ideas on how I should've played this?

Vote4Pedro · #4 06-24-2005, 03:28 AM

capping preflop and reraising the flop is the only way to play it

Kumubou · #5 06-24-2005, 03:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't think how a maniac would increase the avg on the table so much thats a good tip to think about (especially since UTG+2 raised 10 straight hands after this till he went broke and left).

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolute maniacs tend to induce maniacal play from otherwise sane players. I know it happens to me; normally I would slow down with something like TPGK when your typical fish pops me, but get it HU with a maniac and middle pair is a capping hand.

What's really cool is when you just go along for the ride with the nuts when a maniac and an sane agressive player are going at it. One time I called down with a set that turned a boat as the pre-flop raiser and manaic were going to war (PFR had an overpair, maniac had two live cards that rivered a gutshot straight, I was fufufufufufufuing all the way to the back). Read dependent but it can end in high comedy.

-K

Arm187r · #6 06-24-2005, 03:38 AM

b]Final Pot:[/b] 40 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Qd Td (two pair, queens and tens).
BB has Ts 7s (two pair, tens and threes).
UTG+2 has 8s 8c (two pair, eights and threes).
Hero has Kh Kc (two pair, kings and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 40 BB.

Its a miracle to me but my hand was good!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
I was happy but confused.

Say I'm capping preflop and on the flop.
Whats my play on the turn and river? It'd come back bet to me on the turn and river I'm assuming.

Vote4Pedro · #7 06-24-2005, 03:56 AM

if the flops capped and they continue w/ aggression, then you can switch to calldown mode. Theres no way I'm folding KK in this pot. Just cross your fingers that these donks are overplaying their hands

Hojglad · #8 06-24-2005, 05:17 AM

I think I close my eyes and three-bet the river here when the board might have counterfeited someone else's two pair. You must call this river, btw. There is no way in hell your hand is not good 1 in 20 times. Playing with a maniac turns otherwise sane players into crazy ones.

gopnik · #9 06-24-2005, 02:02 PM

Cap preflop, cap the flop.
If aggression continues on the turn, I'd just start calling down....

McGahee · #10 06-24-2005, 02:05 PM

This looks like one of those hands where God decides he wants to make you throw up in your mouth. I don't know how/where you can get away from it. I wouldn't 3-bet the turn when you're behind most of the time though. River a K next time.