whats your read on this overbet? $55sng

[__Q__]

If your going to go broke to someone that has a flush draw, you might as well put your money in before he makes it.

If you aren't willing to go broke by pushing edges, I don't see how you can be successful in STTs. The blinds rise fast in these things and you can't wait for 100 percent lock hands. Wouldn't you rather push a set on the flop, than to have to push A7os before the flop a few levels later cause you only have 4 times the BB?

[hummusx]

Why is this a push on the flop? The pot is 290 and hero has about 1200 chips left. Isn't pushing an overbet by far? I don't really get why you wouldn't make a largish raise (enough to make calling with any draw very wrong). Why go overboard? If the blinds were larger, the pot was bigger, more people had already called the flop bet, or if there was some other compelling reason to way overbet I could maybe see it. In this instance though, I don't understand why you would want to push.

[LearnedfromTV]

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Why is this a push on the flop? The pot is 290 and hero has about 1200 chips left. Isn't pushing an overbet by far? I don't really get why you wouldn't make a largish raise (enough to make calling with any draw very wrong). Why go overboard? If the blinds were larger, the pot was bigger, more people had already called the flop bet, or if there was some other compelling reason to way overbet I could maybe see it. In this instance though, I don't understand why you would want to push.

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My 2 cents:

Since he has everyone in the hand covered, his stack size isn't important. Given the stack sizes of his opponents, any reasonable raise (say to 500) pot commits them anyway, so he might as well push. Any opponent with a made hand will think of calling a push as equivalent to calling a smaller raise, but any draw might get away easy if the turn is a card Hero can't bet but that happens not to make the draws hand.

[hummusx]

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My 2 cents:

Since he has everyone in the hand covered, his stack size isn't important. Given the stack sizes of his opponents, any reasonable raise (say to 500) pot commits them anyway, so he might as well push. Any opponent with a made hand will think of calling a push as equivalent to calling a smaller raise, but any draw might get away easy if the turn is a card Hero can't bet but that happens not to make the draws hand.

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I don't get why you'd need to bet 500 into this pot. If you make it 500, the original bettor is getting 800:400 to call. You could easily make this 700:300 or even 650:250 which is still worse than 3:1. I guess if they have a straight flush draw they'd be getting good odds to call. And I don't think you have to think in terms of being pot committed if you put in 350 out of your 1275 stack. It sucks, but you can get away from it and still have your starting stack at level 1.

[pokerraja]

The BB had (3,10) spades. He flopped an open-ended straight draw plus a flush draw. He hit his 10 high flush on turn. My plan of getting away from this hand would of worked perfectly if I didn't read into his overbet. Of course I called his all-in and didnt get any help on the river.

By the way, I do understand why you say I should push the flop hard. But in this case, im sure I would of lost the money either way. I just felt that one of the 6 limpers hit the flop harder than I did. This is not my standard play.

[LearnedfromTV]

500 is raising the pot (well, 490). Very reasonable, and with a set on a straight and flush draw board I want to overcharge the single draw in case someone is in there with both draws. My point about pot-committedness was about the Villains, not the Hero. This more than half the stack of any of the others in the hand. Anyone who calls that is only folding to another bet if they are on a draw that gets to see the river and misses. So every made hand he wants to call probably calls a push as often as a smaller raise, but a push discourages the draws.

I think you have to think about the way the hand plays on the turn. Even if you charge the draw enough in terms of immediate odds, the implied odds are there for him to call since you'll pay off often enough. The other issue is that if the first guy calls, the second guy can come with any decent draw.

I don't like callers here because there are too many cards on the turn that make your life difficult. Any spade, 2, 3, 7, 8 may or may not have hit your caller(s), and he could either bluff you off your hand or get paid off, depending on which gamble you want to take.

If a good turn card comes, you push then anyway. I don't think the few extra chips you win when you get a draw to call 350 who wouldn't have called 500 or a push AND a nice turn card comes is enough to make up for going broke or getting pushed off the best hand.