Donkin' at me.

[johnnycakes]

One bad MP limper. He's something like 38/10.
You raise ATo on button.

Blinds fold.

Flop: K 6 2 rainbow

MP bets.


What now?
Is this completely player dependent?

[7ontheline]

How could it not be player-dependent? Typically I at least peel because folding immediately gets you pegged as weak. Some guys you know they just hit the board. Some guys are FOS because if they hit they would c/r. Reads are essential here.

[beachbum]

What are his donking criteria? Obviously there are no draws on this board, so he can't be betting that. Will he just donk top pair, or any pair? If the board was a bit more draw heavy I'd call fairly liberally here. However, it's probably thin EV here either way, and like 7ontheline mentioned meta game considerations come into play.

Also, have you been put in spots like these previously in the session? For instance, if I did fold here I definitately would not fold in a similar spot next time.

[johnnycakes]

[ QUOTE ]
and like 7ontheline mentioned meta game considerations come into play.

Also, have you been put in spots like these previously in the session? For instance, if I did fold here I definitately would not fold in a similar spot next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was seeing this kind of donk a lot durring my session tonight.
I'm not speaking of one particular opponent. I played a lot of hands lst night and had multiple (weak) opponents doing this with some regularity.

This donk typically comes from weak players and therefore, I don't think there is a lot of meta game considerations. If I fold this flop, that doesn't mean they are more likely to bet out next time in a similar situation. They won't remember.

One of three things happened in these situations (when my hand doesn't improve):
a) I raise flop. Opponent calls and check/folds the turn. This happened surprisingly a lot.
b) I raise flop. Opponent calls and check/calls turn. River goes check check and I usually lose. (Usually take this line with some kind of back-door draw on flop)
c) I peel the flop and fold the turn.

[philnewall]

One other situation is you raise the flop and they donk the turn again. This is why I prefer to always call the flop with the option of raising turn for value/free showdown.

[disjunction]

I'm pretty sure the correct play is to peel, if you've been sitting at the table with him for awhile and he hasn't stood out.

If I or he just sat down, I raise and take the free card because: (1) He may turn out to be a bet/fold type (2) People seem more likely to pull off a bet/fold when I first start sitting with them (3) Metagame. You bet I raise. (4) Information (with apologies to MM): I want to know what he's donking with. (5) I think there's a good chance my ten is live.

I just don't see how you can arguee a call here. I am totally shocked at some of the responses. You cannot assume every time someone bets into you they are bluffing. In fact when a player bets into a preflop raiser its fair to say he understand he probably gets raised. If you can't fold this hand then i cant see too many flops you will ever be able to fold.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't see how you can arguee a call here. I am totally shocked at some of the responses. You cannot assume every time someone bets into you they are bluffing. In fact when a player bets into a preflop raiser its fair to say he understand he probably gets raised. If you can't fold this hand then i cant see too many flops you will ever be able to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Suppose you fold here. Why is it not extremely profitable for him to donk every single flop, getting 5:1 odds? On what percentage of these situations do you expect to have some sort of pair?

Furthermore yes, if we were the type of person who folds this flop a lot, his optimal play would be to to bluff most of the time.

Edit: Dangerfish, I went back and read your other posts and it seems that you're a touch inexperienced, at least at shorthanded play. Shorthanded games are aggressive, for good reason. When it's 5 to the flop in a ring game, bluffing isn't a huge factor. When it's just you and someone else, you have to consider

(1) That a single bet by you might make your opponent fold, winning you the whole pot

(2) Your opponent may be thinking the same thing, and it becomes right to call when you think there's a small chance you're ahead, even with Ace high, in hopes that he'll stop bluffing you on a later street. Thus, it becomes more expensive for your opponent to bluff.

[Lmn55d]

I would fold here, but if he does this again on a similar board I'm getting to showdown. If it was some donk I call down. With only "38/10" as your read, I think folding has the highest EV on this initial encounter.