JJ line check 3/6 nl, prob. boring

Raven · #1 12-10-2005, 06:50 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, 6$ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($565.28)
Button ($728.15)
SB ($326.85)
BB ($314.85)
UTG ($542.60)
Hero ($678.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
1 fold, Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, Button calls $20, 1 fold, BB calls $14.

Flop: ($63) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $40, Button calls $40, BB folds.

Turn: ($143) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $125, Hero calls $125.

River: ($393) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks.

My opponent is loose and aggressive before the flop and not so after it, he is bad in general.
I was planning to fold to any significant bet on the river, do you like ?

emil3000 · #2 12-10-2005, 06:57 PM

Spot sucks, I like betting the turn more, if you don't think he'll bluff you out all the time.

I should add that I played a hand very similarly today and I ended up folding on the river when the flush card hit, basically I didn't feel like I had any information about his hand and my hand seemed crystal clear even to the most inept handreader. That's a bad spot in NL.

xorbie · #3 12-10-2005, 06:58 PM

I wouldn't like calling that turn and folding to a river bet so much.

Raven · #4 12-10-2005, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't like calling that turn and folding to a river bet so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are not a lot of better hands that he could have there except trip queens and its not that likely that he have it. I think his most probable hand is a lower pocket pair or a random flush draw. If I check I let him bet / bluff with a lot of worse hands and pay him when he have trip queens, if I bet most worse hands will simply fold.

On the river I really dont think he wold try a bluff since the flush just got out.

I may get it wrong ??

scdavis0 · #5 12-10-2005, 07:27 PM

I like the way you played this a lot.. although I may check the flop and avoid playing a really big pot like you did

Given that you bet the flop i think it is perfect for a limp wristed check/call check/call non-diamond river. You can't call a bet here on THIS river.

soah · #6 12-10-2005, 07:29 PM

Dunno about the 600s, but at the 400s it seemed that most pocket pairs would check behind here because they realize they are no good and don't think a bluff will be successful. Either that or they are just too scared to try it. But against solid opponents this line is just going to let them bluff the correct percentage of the time according to game theory unless you also do this with 77, etc.

Atropos · #7 12-10-2005, 07:35 PM

I think this depends on your read and how aggressive your opponent is. If you dont think about calling a river push, you obviously cant call the turn against aggressive opponents. Against moderate aggressives I would call every non diamond river.

If I was playing the hand, it's possible I would reraise the turn [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] There is just something that I find intuitively strange about his 125 bet in the 140 pot. In my mind this can only be a flushdraw, lower pair including 22.
Since bad players would call flushdraw and lower pair... very read dependent obviously.

Raven · #8 12-10-2005, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dunno about the 600s, but at the 400s it seemed that most pocket pairs would check behind here because they realize they are no good and don't think a bluff will be successful. Either that or they are just too scared to try it. But against solid opponents this line is just going to let them bluff the correct percentage of the time according to game theory unless you also do this with 77, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I check the turn I look like I was trying to buy the pot on the flop and that I just give up the hand, or that I have the flush draw and dont want to bet it two times, so my opponent will often try to bet there expecting to get the pot right there most of the time.

Also, in my experience people wont bluff almost ever on the river with the flush out, so I dont really mind folding to a bet there.

BobboFitos · #9 12-10-2005, 08:30 PM

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I wouldn't like calling that turn and folding to a river bet so much.

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in principle, neither would I, but thats a good card to fold.

BobboFitos · #10 12-10-2005, 08:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the way you played this a lot.. although I may check the flop and avoid playing a really big pot like you did

Given that you bet the flop i think it is perfect for a limp wristed check/call check/call non-diamond river. You can't call a bet here on THIS river.

[/ QUOTE ]

perfectly said