A Question for Semi-Pros Out There

[Mempho]

I'm a former full-timer due to circumstance (I graduated with an accounting degree right after Enron). Anyway, I've since (seems like eons ago) gotten a job and I play part-time (about 15 hours per week except for the accounting busy season).

I've noticed, however, some drawbacks to being semi-pro. For all the raving reviews of this lifestyle, there have been some considerable effects. First, the time issue is huge when it comes to balancing a career, poker, and your personal life (this is why I put the 15 hr per week quota on myself...no less, no more).

More importantly (and my reason for starting this thread), I've noticed that some days (that being today), I can't deal with games that put me in a lot of difficult decisions. This happens after a particularly tough day at work (such as today). After a light day at the office, I'm fine. After a tough day of stress and difficult thinking, I just can't do it, however. I would venture to say that I go from a decent winner to a modest loser.

Fortunately, I was able to recognize it when I went down 33BBs tonight. Not only was I not getting lucky, I realized that I was unable to process difficult decisions at the poker table. I quit for an hour and a half and came back and played for half an hour and made back 7 bets. Even so, a half hour in, I said to myself, "I just don't have it tonight," so I quit. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I didn't lose much, but I though I might ask for advice because if I never play tired, it is difficult to get my hours in...then again, what's the use in getting in all my hours if I lose during those hours. I'd be better off playing fewer hours (only when I'm fresh).

Do you think calling the girlfriend during a hard day at work (knowing I won't be fresh for the evening session) and giving her some "quality time" is the answer?

I could, of course, drink lots of caffeine. Then again, I would go to bed on time and I'd ruin the next day (both with the profession and with poker).

[Bigdaddydvo]

I think you're in a good situation. The full time pro MUST put his hours in, whether he's playing his "A" game or not. Only 15 hrs/week makes for a flexible schedule. The great thing about being a semi-pro is that poker is still more "hobby" than job. If you don't make your 15 hrs, so what? It's not your primary income source.

Don't hold yourself to the 15 Hr quota. If you feel great and want to play more, go for it. If you're tired/unmotivated, recognize that, cut your hours, and don't donate your winnings. All in all I think us semi-pros have it the best [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[PokerAce]

If you have a rough day at work, why not just skip poker for the evening if you aren't up to it? There's no rule saying you must play poker every night.

You have a job, so you don't need poker to survive. Sure, it's nice extra income, but is it worth it if you have to force yourself to play when you don't want to? Taking the time off is +EV if you play poorly when you aren't feeling your best.

Playing just "to get your hours in" isn't worth it if those hours are spent losing due to not playing your best.

[Mempho]

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All in all I think us semi-pros have it the best [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I totally agree. The reason I've had the "quota" is that I want to open my own office one day. I've written the business plan and you'll notice in my location how much more money I need. I update this at the beginning of each month now. If I make my goal, I will start with no debt. All in all, I'm syched about my goal...but, as you said, if I'm not playing well, donating only puts me further away from my goal. (BTW, we semi-pros can do some awesome things with our money since we have both career experience and the supplemental income from poker [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] ).

FWIW, I'm a huge fan of Charlie Wiess (the man is literally a football genius). I've followed ND since I went to high school with Jarious Jackson. He's a very good guy.

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Playing just "to get your hours in" isn't worth it if those hours are spent losing due to not playing your best.

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And not to mention, not very fun. You should at least try to enjoy what you do, so it's no so painful.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a rough day at work, why not just skip poker for the evening if you aren't up to it? There's no rule saying you must play poker every night.


[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree and I feel a small victory in that I could recognize it tonight. I really recognized it tonight when I tried to "make a play" against a flop bettor with an aggression of 0.38! Your software is awesome, but if I'm on autopilot and pay it no attention, it doesn't do any good.

You are making the semi-pro life seem like a lot of work.

The beauty of poker for me is, I work (or don't work) when I feel like it. Sure I keep a semi-regular schedule, but if one day I don't feel like playing, hey, guess what? I take the day off, maybe the next one too. Hell, if I feel like it I can knock off for a week.

Or I can work 16 hour days if I'm into it.

The '15 no more no less' sounds like punching a clock to me which is fine if you are looking for a little discipline, but it doesn't seem to be what you are looking for.

In such small samples of 15 hours a week, you are going to have losing weeks and months, and there is no way to avoid this. You must be able to deal with this mentally.

And who says you have to play poker 15 hours a week? If it is not fun, quit. If you are not playing your best, take a month off, recharge you batteries. You have a paycheck coming in, so you are in no rush.

Suggestions----play when you feel like it, 20 minutes or 20 hours. Don't lock yourself into 'I have to play' mentality---you don't.

After each mini session, ask yourself, 'did I play well?'
You aces may have gotten cracked 4 straight times, but if you didn't go on tilt, know that you did your best. You seem to recognize when you are playing less than your best.

Try a different game to perk up your interest. If I have been playing a lot of limit and have been spewing, I might try a NL sit&go to tighten up my play and get a different perspective.

Finally----If you don't feel like playing---DON'T. Do yourself a favor, watch a movie, read a book, try something new with your girlfriend, take a nap, but stay away from poker. When you get that 'I can't wait to play' feeling, you know it's time to sign back in.

Good luck---

[MicroBob]

I mostly agree with bigdaddy here.

Don't play if you are pretty sure you'll be lousy.
And certainly don't sacrifice too much of the other aspects of your life.
your GF should be more important than your poker.


So you have a stressful day at your regular job....Just take a break. I know I would. Relax. Close your eyes. Listen to music. Meditate. Whatever.

If it's a bit too much for you right now then why not consider cutting back to 8-10 hours a week of poker?
And if you have more free-time and feel up for it then you can play 15-20.



I'm not sure if part-timers necessarily have it best in some regards but I certainly can see where that senitment comes from.
I like the total flexibility I have as a full-timer.
Even when I was working part-time I had obligations to be there and it was kind of tough to get away for a week or so if I wanted to (this was specific to my job however).

My last 'regular' job of dealing blackjack was kind of ideal though for someone like me trying to make their way to full-time in poker.
When you're dealing you can sign your name to the 'early-out' sheet and when it gets a little later in the shift they go down the list and let people leave early as they are closing up tables.
It was also possible for me to give-away or pick-up a shift every now and then.

So...if I was losing I always had the ability to just put in extra hours and work 45 hours or so.
But if I was winning I could cut back my total hours to 30, 25 or even 20 just by getting out early. And then I could go home and grind-out a better income playing poker.

That kind of flexibility rocked. And obviously I had the luxury of knowing that my job would be there waiting for me if online-poker didn't work out (which I really didn't think it would) so I was able to give it a shot on a smaller than typically recommended bankroll.


Anyway - obviously part-timers have the comfort of knowing that they have at least SOME money coming in when they are getting clobbered at the tables and that is pretty nice.
If there is health-insurance thrown in at your regular job then all the better.

But as a full-timers I've NEVER had to say to anyone "sorry. I can't make it because I have to work."
I can visit my parents in Florida next week and take my job with me.
I can play in two recreation soccer leagues and not miss any games due to work.
And I get to spend significantly more time with my GF then I would be able to otherwise.


Take advantage of the flexibility that having poker as part of your income gives you.
Don't let poker dominate/ruin the other fun things in life (as happened to that guy who wrote the article in the 2+2 mag about being a miserable online-pro who has lost two GF's because he's always playing poker all night long).

[RunDownHouse]

I work in finance as well, generally 55+ hours/week. My pay isn't all that great, so I really look to poker to suplement my income. As such, I struggle with the same thing you do: forcing myself to get hours in. Between my expected winrate and rakeback/bonus, every hour I don't play is an hour I could be making money.

Its hard getting home at 6:30 or later, grabbing a quick bite, and then going to work at my "second job" for a couple hours. I quickly realized that it just wasn't fun and often I was really sucking it up. I also really thought about how I was progressing as a player, what the money meant now, and what potential future earnings could mean. I came to the conclusion that auto-piloting my way through an hour-long session of mistake riddled poker just wasn't good for my game, and I could deal with making less money now if I knew I was working towards getting into higher games in the future.

I decided not to play if I was stressed, tired, or otherwise thought I couldn't handle it. When I did play, I really focused on improving my play more than get any set amount of time in (although I still have a loose goal of 10k hands/month). So far I'm moving up at a good pace, making a decent amount of money, and I'm not always dreading playing. Focusing on poker - instead of hand, time, or money goals - made it a lot easier for me to avoid burnout and improve at the same time.

[Mempho]

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You are making the semi-pro life seem like a lot of work.


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No, I love playing. I just don't enjoy playing when I'm "spent." I love the game and making money that might elevate my future path is my idea of "fun."