Split the NL forums again?

[Niwa]

definately split.

[-Skeme-]

I like yours, soah. Most of the SSNL forum consists of easy questions and such, mostly robotic and mechanical answers. MH develops excellent discussions on topics that SSNL doesn't touch on. I hate being barred from these discussions because I only play 1/2.

I like it. The only thing I fear is that the MH players stay in High Limit, thus leaving me out in the dark once again.

[Rococo]

The messages from the vast majority of those in favor of splitting the forum can be translated as follows:

"Is there any way to create a high stakes forum that is limited to me and the 10-15 posters that are worthy of my attention. After all, I'm a busy guy and a damn expert poker player, and I can't take the time to wade through all the riff-raff."

[bkholdem]

What are the various nl stakes?
.01/.02
.05/.10
.10/.20
.15/.25
.25/.50
.50/1
1/2
2/4
3/6
5/10
10/20
10/25
25/50
50/100
100/200
200/400???

The 5/10 players are whack if they consider themselves high limit lol. They have been getting a free ride in the mid/high forum, leaving the players in the few limits below them without a hand up while having the players on the few levels above them giving them coaching to help them improve.

[edge]

Ok, so if we cut out 5/10 from the high-stakes board, then we end up with 95% 10/20 hands. The people who play higher rarely post hands, and 50/100, 100/200, 200/400 are pretty much the same thing (same player pool?).

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
i think the forum structure is pretty good as is.

[/ QUOTE ]

[soah]

Your analysis is faulty because it does not consider the quantity of players playing at each level, or the point at which the quality of the players begins to change. How often do you see games above 50/100 running? And why should 10/20 and 10/25 be counted separately? I really don't care too much whether 5/10 is considered Mid or High, but your arguments are completely absurd.

Essentially I can see three stages in development of a player:

They start out clueless playing in Small stakes. In order to beat their clueless opponents, they must learn "ABC" poker. They learn to fold marginal hands, they wait for big hands, and they take money from people who can't fold marginal hands. The small stakes games consist of ABC players preying on clueless players.

Once the ABC players start winning, they move up in stakes. Eventually they reach games that don't contain the completely clueless players. In fact, most of their opponents play ABC poker and have also moved up from the small stakes. If these players just wait for big hands, they will just break even and trade their money back and forth. So they work on strategies to exploit ABC players. Semi-bluffs and bluffs become more effective (since their opponents can fold marginal hands), and meta-game starts to matter. The mid stakes games consist of thinking players preying on ABC players.

Eventually the winners at the mid stakes games move up to a level where they can't find the straightforward ABC players. Their opponents are tricky and thinking. Now it's time to adjust strategies again. The winners at the High stakes games are the ones that are capable of beating the thinking players.

So far I haven't seen anyone give a reason for *why* they think the current setup is fine (and unless I've missed something, none of the people saying that are actually playing in the proposed Mid stakes range). My arguments for splitting the forum are a combination of what I've written above, in conjunction with the fact that the two NL forums are becoming increasingly busy. If you believe either of those reasons is flawed, could you please explain why?

[JaBlue]

I agree that 5/10 is not high stakes, but advice that is suitable for that game cannot be found in SSNL. The mid forum could probably consist of 2-4 -> 5/10 in my opinion

[Ulysses]

As far as this forum is concerned, 100/200 and 200/400 can effectively be ignored.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
The messages from the vast majority of those in favor of splitting the forum can be translated as follows:

"Is there any way to create a high stakes forum that is limited to me and the 10-15 posters that are worthy of my attention. After all, I'm a busy guy and a damn expert poker player, and I can't take the time to wade through all the riff-raff."

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't really read this thread at all, did you? I'm not asking for Matt Flynn to moderate and El Diablo to have the most posts - I'm asking for a Mid Stakes forum for .5/1 - 3/6 NL players, where they can post hands without the beginners coming in and recommending weak-tight strategies, or the condescending posts from the 10/20 types that say 'Wrong forum'.

As an addendum to soah's nice explanation of mid stakes - I want a forum for Mid players where firing two barrel bluffs isn't instantly viewed as chip-spewing. Where meta-game has *some* importance.