The ultimate format for a holdem tournament for experienced players

[Runner Runner]

I don't know if this is the case with anyone else, but in the home game I play in, the players have improved quite a bit from say 2 years ago. We used to play our tournaments no limit and have found that this format has turned it into too much of a 2 card game late in the tournament as the blinds increase. Even early in the tournament, there are not many flops seen because of the ability to make overbets preflop. No limit holdem is fine when you are playing online sng's or a cardroom game, but when you are playing a home game with your buddies, you should want an action game where you get to make a lot more decisions. We tried pot limit and it helped increase action a bit, but we found the following multiple betting limit format to work the best:

Preflop - Limit betting
Flop - Half pot limit
Turn - Pot limit
River - No limit

We found this format to work great in adding action to our tournaments and although you will see more suckouts, it definitely forces players to make more decisions after the flop and play an overall more skillful game. Try it out.

[jojobinks]

as soon as wsop gets rid of all the fish, maybe they'll move to this format. i hear this is how they did it back in the day, before all the noobs started playing. [/sarcasm]

there's a reason why you should be able to overbet pre-flop. it's to make this a game of skill. playing a capped pot with 45s can't really be a mistake if you're risking very few chips preflop to stack someone off later.

your structure most definitely will increase action; i'm not sure that's the same thing as making it the "ultimate" structure for experienced players.

[Runner Runner]

[ QUOTE ]
there's a reason why you should be able to overbet pre-flop. it's to make this a game of skill. playing a capped pot with 45s can't really be a mistake if you're risking very few chips preflop to stack someone off later.

your structure most definitely will increase action; i'm not sure that's the same thing as making it the "ultimate" structure for experienced players.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right that having the ability to overbet preflop brings an element of skill into the game. Unfortunately when all your buddies are skillful and disciplined at that part of the game, No limit becomes dull and is reduced to a 2 card game, (unless you have time to run a long tournament with deep stacks).

This is why I think this structure is great for home games, where you aren't necessarily looking for the structure that maximizes profit as much as the one that maximizes decision making and action. This game is very skillful though because of the increased decisions to be made on all streets and the implied odds that drawing hands get that you brought up.

[Easy E]

Isn't Rolf Slotboom going to sue you for copywrite infringement? This is very similar to his potnopine holdem suggestion from a few years ago.

<font color="blue">Before the flop the betting is just like in any other limit poker game. After the flop the limits double right away (that is, if the blinds are $10 and $20, then the betting units on the flop are $40 instead of the usual $20), on the turn pot-limit betting is possible and no-limit on the river. </font>

[Mojo Tooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately when all your buddies are skillful and disciplined at that part of the game, No limit becomes dull and is reduced to a 2 card game, (unless you have time to run a long tournament with deep stacks).


[/ QUOTE ]

So it sounds like nobody wants to call a big bet? That has nothing to do with experience and everything to do with trying to get either a) more flops, or b) longer tournament.

Given your statement that you're assuming your players don't want a longer tournament, your format sounds at least interesting. For my game, I would just as soon slow down the blind timers. For one reason if nothing else: dealers (who are also players) have enough to deal with just keeping track of normal no-limit bets. "Half-pot" and pot limit bets would just confuse the hell out of everyone.

[hachkc]

Why not just play a limit tournament or something like a spread limit tournament (10-20 Blinds with min bet = BB and max bet = 2-4x BB). This would be a lot easier to manage and still bring in the option of big bets. I would say the minimum starting chips should be 100xBB.

[BISCO]

this is the dumbest [censored] idea i have heard in a long time.

[TrailofTears]

So you can't protect against draws but they can pump the pot when the draws hit? This structure makes no sense. You can't allow for cheap drawing but make showdowns really expensive. One of the main reasons limit poker works is because you can draw cheaply but the implied odds are limited. In NL, OTOH, pot manipulation is where it's at. This structure destroys the best qualities of both games.

-T

[RPMick]

Make your tournament a rebuy. Allows players to take more chances and adds to the prize pool.

-Ryan

[warewulf]

Must be absolute hell trying to explain these things to new players!

"I'm all in! What? I can only bet the pot? Dammit!"