KK - Ace on the flop. Common situation, I need to fix it

pergesu · #1 12-10-2005, 05:18 PM

Second hand of the tourney.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t670)
CO (t770)
Button (t975)
SB (t785)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t800)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, 2 folds, Button calls t15, SB completes, Hero raises to t75, MP2 calls t60, Button folds, SB folds.

Flop: (t177.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t125, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t302.50

This kinda thing happens a billion times a day, and I'm not sure what to do. Betting imo is -EV because I only get called/raised by an ace. Checking, on the other hand, just says "Yo dude, take it, I'm a pussy."

#2 12-10-2005, 05:53 PM

I'll toss out a pot sized bet usually, so long as the flop isn't too coordinated. Any reraise and I'm out...it's the situations in which someone calls that I have trouble with. Go after the pot on the turn if a non scary card pops up, or give it up and check?

#3 12-10-2005, 06:01 PM

I usually bet out 100 on any flop. If there's an ace and he doesn't fold I'm usually done with it though.

#4 12-10-2005, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'll toss out a pot sized bet usually, so long as the flop isn't too coordinated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I am MORE inclined to make a pot sized bet on a coordinated board because I want to look like I'm protecting the ace I'm representing.

Double Down · #5 12-11-2005, 09:24 PM

"Personally I am MORE inclined to make a pot sized bet on a coordinated board because I want to look like I'm protecting the ace I'm represening. "

Yeah, but on a coordinated board such as AQ7 with 2 of a suit, even if you bet representing the ace, they may call with an ace, a queen, or a draw and you won't really know where u stand.

For what it's worth, my default play is I bet the flop if I'm against 1 opponent, but I check with 2 or more since the odds are that one of them connected with the ace, and probably with at least a jack kicker if they called my preflop raise. (Keep in mind, this pertains to the 215 level. Not sure what kinds of ace kickers people call with at lower limits)

tewall · #6 12-12-2005, 01:16 AM

If you make a half-pot bet, it only needs to succeed 1 time in 3 to break even. There's few situations, even against 2 opponents, where this won't be the case.

If you bet the pot, you need to succeed half the time, which is harder to do. People are just about as likely to fold to a half-pot bet as to pot. Heck a lot of times you see people betting the equivalent of a limit bet, like a fifth of the pot, and people fold. A lot of people don't pay any attention to pot odds. Bottom line is I think a pot bet is too much.

#7 12-10-2005, 06:04 PM

I think you play in much higher levels than I do, and you FREQUENTLY get the Ax crowd in with this at my level.

I wonder if at the higher/"smarter" levels, you can still represent a better ace (or the only A) than the caller and throw out that 3/4 - pot size bet and get AT and below to muck. But, yeah, I hate this spot.

pergesu · #8 12-10-2005, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you play in much higher levels than I do, and you FREQUENTLY get the Ax crowd in with this at my level.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play 22s...so unless you're playing micro STTs, I can't play at a much higher level [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for settin me straight curtains

#9 12-10-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I play 22s...so unless you're playing micro STTs, I can't play at a much higher level

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...yeah, I see a bajillion posts and I assume your in the $1000000 STT crowd (plus your posts show far more knowledge than I have [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ). Sorry 'bout that [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] So I definitely feel your pain in these situations.

curtains · #10 12-10-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Second hand of the tourney.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t670)
CO (t770)
Button (t975)
SB (t785)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t800)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, 2 folds, Button calls t15, SB completes, Hero raises to t75, MP2 calls t60, Button folds, SB folds.

Flop: (t177.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t125, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t302.50

This kinda thing happens a billion times a day, and I'm not sure what to do. Betting imo is -EV because I only get called/raised by an ace. Checking, on the other hand, just says "Yo dude, take it, I'm a pussy."

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude thats ridiculous you need to bet out. Yes you only get called/raised by an ace, but you take away the chance of him bluffing, of which is a bluff you will not call. You don't make every bet in poker to get called by worse hands. Just because only better hands than yours will call, doesnt make your bet wrong. The way you play it, you let some bozo with any two cards just fire one bullet and take the pot from you. This is an obvious bet...imo checking here is just terrible at the lower limits.