Matusow's forward chip movement -- call???

teddyFBI · #1 11-02-2005, 02:18 AM

I was baffled when MM moved his chips forward all the way when contemplating a river call against the guy w/ the KKKJJ flopped boat. He simply doesn't let them touch the felt, and pulls them back.

No one says a thing.

Of course he ends up calling anyway, but I would have thought the dealer should have immediately called the floor to alert MM that his forward chip movement was a call. Of course the opponent is in a tough spot: he can't go apeshit when MM pulls the chips back for the first time or he'll tip his hand. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if MM had pulled his chips back and mucked...as the opponent I would definitely have called the floor over to protest.

Bartman387 · #2 11-02-2005, 03:15 AM

I thought you could bring chips forward and as long as they dont touch the felt it isn't considered an action.

Hotel Detect · #3 11-02-2005, 03:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was baffled when MM moved his chips forward all the way when contemplating a river call against the guy w/ the KKKJJ flopped boat. He simply doesn't let them touch the felt, and pulls them back.

No one says a thing.

Of course he ends up calling anyway, but I would have thought the dealer should have immediately called the floor to alert MM that his forward chip movement was a call. Of course the opponent is in a tough spot: he can't go apeshit when MM pulls the chips back for the first time or he'll tip his hand. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if MM had pulled his chips back and mucked...as the opponent I would definitely have called the floor over to protest.

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I was pretty baffled by this too. I think your analysis of why the guy didn't say anything is spot-on, .. at the same time I think Matusow knows he can get called out here. I think he probably was sure he was going to call and used the manuever as a why-not attempt to gather info. If he sees something he doesnt like he can at least try to muck the hand and get away with it. If he gets called out, he just has to make the call he was most likely planning on making to begin with.

teddyFBI · #4 11-02-2005, 03:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought you could bring chips forward and as long as they dont touch the felt it isn't considered an action.

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I have been told in many card clubs that moving chips forward is a call, no ifs ands or buts.

You got to think MM knows this rule as well -- granted he is a real dipshit. I think it was an angle-shoot on his part that probably would have been overturned (i.e. forced call) if it had been challenged.

Bartman387 · #5 11-02-2005, 03:35 AM

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-- granted he is a real dipshit.

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Not sure what that has to do with anything...

back to your actual topic, it depends on the cardroom. WSOP may or may not have been enforcing this rule.

Toro · #6 11-02-2005, 08:16 AM

Last week in a WPF tourney at Foxwoods this happened on the first hand. I checked my cards right after the deal and put a 25 chip on them. When it was my turn to act, I pushed the chip off the cards, but forward not sideways and mucked.

The dealer says that's a call. They have a line but the chip got no where's near the line. I argued that it was obviously a fold and everyone at the table agreed with me but they all said that the instructions which I missed said if you move your chips forward of the cards it's a bet.

Since it was first hand and only a 25 chip they all let it slide.

Zetack · #7 11-02-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Last week in a WPF tourney at Foxwoods this happened on the first hand. I checked my cards right after the deal and put a 25 chip on them. When it was my turn to act, I pushed the chip off the cards, but forward not sideways and mucked.

The dealer says that's a call. They have a line but the chip got no where's near the line. I argued that it was obviously a fold and everyone at the table agreed with me but they all said that the instructions which I missed said if you move your chips forward of the cards it's a bet.

Since it was first hand and only a 25 chip they all let it slide.

[/ QUOTE ]

Geez, I pretty much have my hand forward of my cards a hundred percent of the time when I'm chip riffling. I guess I'd be calling every hand there.

swarm · #8 11-02-2005, 11:16 AM

This was such an absolute call and mistake by the dealer. The opponnent should have protested, it would have sent Mike off and probably earned Mike a time out after he told the guy to F... off.

I can see it being used by donks in future WSOP's, the call pump fake...

This was the worst hand played on all accounts last night, just brutal.

#9 11-04-2005, 03:08 PM

Definitely a call. The rest of the table seemed to be so star-struck by Mike that they ignored it (or just didn't know). I would have screamed for the floor if for no other reason to hopefully put Mikey on tilt.

Dominic · #10 11-04-2005, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Last week in a WPF tourney at Foxwoods this happened on the first hand. I checked my cards right after the deal and put a 25 chip on them. When it was my turn to act, I pushed the chip off the cards, but forward not sideways and mucked.

The dealer says that's a call. They have a line but the chip got no where's near the line. I argued that it was obviously a fold and everyone at the table agreed with me but they all said that the instructions which I missed said if you move your chips forward of the cards it's a bet.

Since it was first hand and only a 25 chip they all let it slide.

[/ QUOTE ]

Geez, I pretty much have my hand forward of my cards a hundred percent of the time when I'm chip riffling. I guess I'd be calling every hand there.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why I don't play at Mandalay Bay - because of shitty rules like this.