200/400 bellagio vs v good player

[goofball]

I agree that 3betting preflop is good most of the time for all those reasons. KJ is ahead of her button opening range i think, you get initiative and maybe start to convice her to back off a little. Betting and raising is better then checking and calling, I think you should have just 3bet the flop. Given that you didn't I sort of like calling the turn raise and betting a safe river. She doesn't get to check behind on the river, she doesn't get to four bet you on the turn and i always feel like this line extracts more honest action from your opponent on future hands.

[Philuva]

I like it. I only played with Terri a couple of times, but I remember her raising my turn donk bets every time fwiw. Obviously, I would like it a lot more if you had AJ as it probably takes away 2 of her outs and it will get you an additional bet or two if an A hits. I think it is important to play some marginal hands like this in these situations to take away her raising the turn for free showdowns for fear of being 3 bet.

What do you do if she 4 bets or a spade hits the river? Either way I think against her you need to get to showdown, so if the turn 3 bet will cause you to fold I don't like it as much.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi BK,

I hate your 3 bet preflop against a top player. You are out of position and will miss most times.



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a big 3 better out of the blinds, but this one isn't even remotely close. I have a very solid image, she's giving me lots of respect...it's time to jack it up with KJ because like you said, I'm going to miss a lot. So is she. This helps me win the pot. I also have the best hand here most of the time too.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
...a checkraise on the flop basically screams "I don't have an A"...

[/ QUOTE ]

A checkraise on an ace high flop screams you don't have an ace? What are you talking about?

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
it's important to 3 bet and seize the initiative.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is such a common belief, that I'd like to discuss it further. Why, exactly, do you have to 3-bet to seize the initiative? Is there some rule that you can't bet the flop unless you 3-bet preflop?

I think people get in this mode where they either have the lead, in which case they bet the next round, or they don't have the lead, in which case they check. This causes all kinds of weird suggestions like the idea that you must 3-bet because otherwise you are forced to check-fold an ace high flop. Huh? Why don't you just bet the flop??

-Eric

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's important to 3 bet and seize the initiative.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is such a common belief, that I'd like to discuss it further. Why, exactly, do you have to 3-bet to seize the initiative? Is there some rule that you can't bet the flop unless you 3-bet preflop?

I think people get in this mode where they either have the lead, in which case they bet the next round, or they don't have the lead, in which case they check. This causes all kinds of weird suggestions like the idea that you must 3-bet because otherwise you are forced to check-fold an ace high flop. Huh? Why don't you just bet the flop??

-Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

Because when you donkbet the flop, people never trust it. So a better hand never folds, because your flop bet looks weird to them. You might be able to get a worse hand to fold though, which is better than them making you fold.

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's important to 3 bet and seize the initiative.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is such a common belief, that I'd like to discuss it further. Why, exactly, do you have to 3-bet to seize the initiative? Is there some rule that you can't bet the flop unless you 3-bet preflop?

I think people get in this mode where they either have the lead, in which case they bet the next round, or they don't have the lead, in which case they check. This causes all kinds of weird suggestions like the idea that you must 3-bet because otherwise you are forced to check-fold an ace high flop. Huh? Why don't you just bet the flop??

-Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

I know if I'm the CO I give up much easier when I miss the flop the way BK played it.

If this does somehow get to showdown the villain will likely start 4 betting most everything she steals with to take back the initiative, or she will start playing back harder post flop. Is this good or bad for you? Do you then 5 bet sometimes to sieze the initiative again?

[HiatusOver]

This is a very good hand to post, keep the live 200-400 hands coming. I think I like your line up to this point. We have yet to talk about the river but if u got there it was probably an interesting street itself. If somehow u could check-call a blank river to snap-off her 3rd semi-bluff with a high spade that would be like really cool. Any chance u tried it?

[skp]

whoa...no fair just quoting a portion of my post.

My words were "<u>many would argue</u> (somewhat forcefully)....it is important to 3 bet to seize the initiative.

[PokerBob]

sure, but i think you gotta give up the ghost if she goes 4.