Home tourney ruling needed

[wdcbooks]

I play a home tourney every week with the same revolving cast of characters. These are good players with casino and online experience and unfortuantely donkeys are few and far between. The game is structure essentially as a Sit and Go, with 1500 chips to start.

I am on the button. Blinds are 10/25. The CO throws out a 100 chip. After a couple of seconds he says, 'Oh I raise to 100'. According to long standing rules, one chip preflop without a declaration is a call. I reraise to 300. The tourney host, a great guy, but a nit for following the rules, says 'Hold on, CO didn't say raise, he called and the raise is from 25 to 300'.

In this case he folded quickly and it was never an issue, but being a bit of a nit myself I wanted to know the proper ruling. Do I regain the option to make any raise I want, or does my raise stand even though the amount was predicated on the CO's mistake?

Thanks.

If you said "I raise to 300" or if you threw out 300 in chips, then your raise stands I believe.

I guess if you said something like "I triple it" then it would be 75 though :P

A single oversized chip thrown in the pot = a call, unless there has been no bets. Then it is considered as a bet.
If he says raise before the chip is thown in the pot, or while the chip is still in the hand, then the chip is considered a raise. unless the chip is under 50% of the minimum raise, then the player has to raise the minimum.

This rule can serve some purposes. If you want to call, you dont have to state that you are calling, or that you have to get some pocketchange from the dealer. You can just throw the chip in. I guess the rule serves more purposes in a casino game than in a home game, and can easily be removed.
You also have to say what you are doing, because the player that has to act after you can give you some information if you don't state your raise.
Example: blinds is 25/50, UTG throws in a 100 chip without saying anything. Then UTG+1 quickly says all-in.
This situation can only be there if there is any confusion around the rules, but still...

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According to long standing rules, one chip preflop without a declaration is a call.

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End of discussion right there. The rules were set before the game started and that's all there is to it.

The fact that it is a stupid rule is irrelevant.

[MickeyHoldem]

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The fact that it is a stupid rule is irrelevant.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

The rule of a single chip raise without declaration is (in my opinion) a stupid rule. All I see it as a way to trap extra $$ into a pot and screw over another player. Its benefits are negligible. In a limit game, the rule has a purpose, but in no limit home game it it pointless. All this does is set up a possible angle shoot and who wants to have an angle shooter in a home game?

This case is a prime example of why that is a bad rule. The CO's intention was to raise the pot. He placed a raise in the pot. Verbal declarations should not be a requirement.

If there is a benefit to this rule that I am not aware of, please let me know because right now I see it as worthless.

That being said, it unfortunately is a rule in this game. If everyone was aware of the rules before the game began, then it is his responsibility to obey them.

[MickeyHoldem]

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In a limit game, the rule has a purpose...

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So what purpose does this rule serve in limit??

[Yads]

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In a limit game, the rule has a purpose...

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So what purpose does this rule serve in limit??

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To allow people to just call with bigger chips w/o having to explicitly say that they are calling. This happens quite often in a limit game, eg. you're playing 4/8 and you don't have enough whites or for some reason you want to use a redbird. You throw it out, it's just a call.

[KenProspero]

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The fact that it is a stupid rule is irrelevant.


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ummmmmm, I thought the general rule is that unless someone declares a raise, a single oversized chip is treated as a call.

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Robert's Rules of Poker, Section 3.15 15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet , but do not announce a raise , you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet .

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I wrote my last post before I saw your post Ken.

I am not debating whether it is a rule or not. It definitely IS a rule. I just don't think it is a particularly good rule in NL.

In limit play, the rule is important and serves a purpose. The rules even give the example of a limit game because that is where the rule was intended for. However I do not see any benefits of it in NL play.