QJ os goes down in flames

#1 08-14-2005, 02:19 PM

Comments on all streets appreciated. My logic here was I was getting good odds to play preflop, and from there I'm not really sure what happened. I think I raised fourth street for information, which is dumb. Should I be folding this hand when it's two back to me on the river?

Reads: SB is 14/5/1.4 over 77 hands, CO is solid 17/9/2.6.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (23 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, CO raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, CO caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 35 BB

Doc7 · #2 08-14-2005, 02:37 PM

very scary flop action, i'm almost positive you're beat when it's capped before it even gets back to you, either by AQ, Q8, or 88...I'd have gotten out on the turn if not the flop when it was 3 bets back to you.

Here's my question:
You raised the turn for information. Ok, they 3-bet and capped...What kind of information does this give you?
(You're probably beat)
Why did you ignore the information you raised to get and then call? I might be being tight, but either way, if you raised for information than you probably didn't use the information in making the decision to call there and then a CAPPED pot on the river.

I definitely feel that all signs, if not on the flop, after your raise on the turn should have been setting off huge warning bells in your head and clicking that call button after you got the information you wanted was a mistake...

#3 08-14-2005, 02:37 PM

fold preflop. on flop, looks like you're looking at 88/KQ/AQ. i think you can safely fold when it's two back to you on the turn.

Doc7 · #4 08-14-2005, 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I be folding this hand when it's two back to me on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to make my post clear, you should definitely have folded when it was two back to you on the TURN, not the river, and that's assuming you decide to stay in past the flop (I'd probably stay in on the flop in a good mood, but definitely get the heck out on the turn after your raise is 3-bet and capped)

#5 08-14-2005, 02:42 PM

Except for your pre-flop call (I never call a raise with QJo), I agreed with everything you did. I don't think you can get away from your very strong hand (high trips on a board with no straights or flushes, by the river) in such a huge, and I do mean huge, pot. It's true that you may be losing to QQQ set with higher kicker, or to a FH, but the pot is so large and your hand is so strong that I think you must stay in.

#6 08-14-2005, 02:47 PM

what do you put CO and SB on that OP is actually ahead of here due to heavy betting and raising?

KeysrSoze · #7 08-14-2005, 02:51 PM

The turn when its 2 back to you is the time to fold if you're going to (depending on reads), after that the pot is so big you're pretty much tied to your hand and have to showdown.

#8 08-14-2005, 02:58 PM

I was thinking pocket pairs: AA, KK for at least one of the 2 villains, and perhaps JJ-99 for the other. Frankly, however, after reading others' posts, I'm re-thinking my read and thus my post because I'm having difficulty imagining how at least one of the two wouldn't slow down their betting without something more than 2-pair with a pair of Queens on the board.