Losing to Jaybirds

kagame · #1 05-01-2005, 06:42 PM

Villain is semi-loose aggressive. Turn action is debateable:

A. lead again?
B. check raise all in?
C. check call?
D. fold?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($584.55)
CO ($575.9)
Button ($611.7)
SB ($1226.1)
BB ($585)
UTG ($640.2)
UTG+1 ($578)
Hero ($822.25)
MP2 ($1262.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls $6, MP2 raises to $30, 5 folds, Hero raises to $100, MP2 calls $70.

Flop: ($209) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $75, MP2 calls $75.

Turn: ($359) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $275, Hero calls $275.

River: ($909) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $600, Hero calls $372.25 (All-In).

Final Pot: $1881.25

Garland · #2 05-01-2005, 06:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($209) 5, 8, J (2 players)
Hero bets $75, MP2 calls $75.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but this flop bet is really weak. Were you hoping he'd sense weakness and go over the top so that you can push? Only excuse I can come up with.

Giving up the initiative was a big error. It's possible he's on a flush draw and you gave him a free card on the turn. If I were you, I'd bet $150-$200 on the flop and push on the turn.

Garland

RED FACE · #3 05-01-2005, 06:56 PM

I play the 50's...
Size of flop bet:
is this just a value bet or are you trying to induce aggression?
turn check:
induces aggression-time to raise.

Wouldn't your opponent be trickier with a set and position? Like check behind on the turn.

From the lower limits, if you had bet more on the flop and he called you would be more justified in fearing trips on the turn imo.

creedofhubris · #4 05-01-2005, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is semi-loose aggressive. Turn action is debateable:

B. check raise all in?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line against loose-aggressive unless he'll call away his stack if you keep firing.

kagame · #5 05-01-2005, 09:59 PM

that was really the only other action i considered in this hand.

the flop bet i consider brilliant as opponent should have a big hand to call the huge preflop reraise (JJ/QQ/AKs)

turn i think QQ or KK would fold to a check raise all in, as the play is so strong, is this a silly mentality?

RED FACE · #6 05-01-2005, 10:09 PM

"turn i think QQ or KK would fold to a check raise all in, as the play is so strong, is this a silly mentality?"

definitely not silly if you're in position but out of position it only makes sense if you're going to check the river. Doing this risks it getting checked through unless KK/QQ spikes top set and you lose. KK/QQ may continue to bet on the end but your turn call is almost as intimidating as a turn check-raise imo. Of course JJ will always bet that river.

nokona13 · #7 05-02-2005, 02:30 PM

One question: what hands would you limp-reraise with that big preflop? I don't know how you play, but I'd say most players would assume your range is like AA-QQ, AKs, or something like that. Maybe not a great idea to advertise your hand so much? If you'd do this with mid pairs and suited connectors or something, then disregard this post...

fsuplayer · #8 05-02-2005, 03:04 PM

flop play is very bad. you need to bet the pot, or over bet it here.

hell, 80% pot at least.

what was your intention with this bet?

aggie · #9 05-02-2005, 03:14 PM

Bet more on the flop

If you're going to check the turn, checkraise all in. (but i'd prefer leading out again)

Slappz · #10 05-02-2005, 03:42 PM

I've seen the weak flop bet work a lot with big pairs. Betting 40% of the pot makes it looks like an AK stab or a flush draw and gets your opponent to bluff raise (or legit raise) allowing you to get him in on the flop.

With that weak flop bet and check on the turn theres no way your opponent could put you on AA, so the deception might pay off.