88 flops set and gets action

BigBrother · #1 10-25-2005, 07:06 AM

MP1 is very loose, somewhat aggro preflop, passive postflop. MP3 is fairly loose passive preflop, pretty aggressive postflop, but these reads are only for 30-50 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (18.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets...

Final Pot: 24.75 BB

1) Am I losing too much value slowplaying this flop? I am looking to jam a non-heart turn.

2) Turn c/r looks like a given.

3) What's my plan for this river?

lautzutao · #2 10-25-2005, 07:18 AM

I 3-bet that flop.

WillMagic · #3 10-25-2005, 07:29 AM

I'm checking this flop planning to check-raise. But once MP3 raises it's an awkward spot, so I don't really mind the flop coldcall - I'd like to give MP1 a chance to catch something and not just bulldoze him out of the pot right now. But then...you can't check the turn. MP3 could very easily be drawing here, and a free card would be a total disaster. So I think coldcalling the flop and then donking the turn is the best line.

Will

#4 10-25-2005, 07:35 AM

Jam the flop.

I'm not sure about betting out on the river - MP1 may be typically loose post-flop, but he calls two BBs cold on the turn. He may have 9T, but I think there's a bigger chance the river completed his flush. If he does have a flush, you may be facing two bets cold when it gets back to you on the river. MP3 will bet for you on the river if you're worried about missing out on value. In fact, maybe you should check-raise: after, MP1 checks, it is less likely that he has a flush. I'm pretty sure you have MP3 beaten (AJ, KJ, J8, 55 are likely hands for him).

krimson · #5 10-25-2005, 10:09 AM

Your position on the flop relative to the aggressor makes it tough to extract value on the turn. I think you should just 3-bet there and lead the turn.

BigBrother · #6 10-25-2005, 03:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your position on the flop relative to the aggressor makes it tough to extract value on the turn. I think you should just 3-bet there and lead the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

My initial plan was to c/r the flop but when I saw they both liked their hands I decided to wait for the turn. If the turn came heart I would lead, but these guys are betting this turn 99% so c/r seems clear to me.

MP1 could have missed AK in which case he likes the K and will bet it...if he checks MP3 is aggro enough that he is not giving a free card as I have represented a drawing hand and he definitely has at least a J.

What hand range do you put MP1 on that won't pay off a turn c/r? I'm interested in learning why betting out has more value.

I can see that 3-betting the flop will have value against any drawing hand and if I 3-bet I need to lead the turn.

BigBrother · #7 10-25-2005, 03:38 PM

Given the action on the turn, what is your line for the river?

felix83 · #8 10-25-2005, 03:43 PM

I like betting the river, because I can think of some hands that a passive post-flop player in MP1 could have played this way(AA, AJ, AK) and you don't want to check it through and lose value against worse hands. So I think I bet/call one bet, and probably bet/fold if it's 2 more to me.

#9 10-25-2005, 03:44 PM

I bet/call the river.

Borodog · #10 10-25-2005, 03:48 PM

Postflop: Jam the whole way until that crappy river, and then bet-call it.