middle pair - a plan?

[Octopus]

Party Poker 3/6 Limit - 10 handed

UTG+1 (a TAG) opens, MP2 (weak, a 26/2/.5 type) cold-calls, Hero is CO as a poster and calls with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. The BB (too loose, too passive, but not excessively either one) also calls.

Flop: (4 players 8SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP calls, Hero?

What is your plan?

[Nick C]

I think folding is probably best.

You're probably behind, and your outs aren't entirely trustworthy.

The possibility of improving to an expensive second-best hand cuts into our implied odds.

I guess we could be ahead of two gutshots right now, but that seems like a lot to ask for.

[Buckmulligan]

getting 10:1 folding has to be worse than calling. I don't really know what raising does for us here, so I think I call and check out the turn.

You are getting 10:1 with 5 dirty outs. If you had Jh10h I would probably call this, given that you can continue with any K, Q, heart, 10 or J, but as it is I would generally fold. The TAG could easily have AJ or A10 meaning even if you hit you don't win, and there is a fair chance this gets raised behind you.

Sometimes discression is the better part of valour.

I'd call and fold the turn UI. Little scary though, a J could give both of you two pair, but I'll still play my two pair as if it's best and raise the turn, and calling down if he three-bets.

[holdemfan]

In an effort to learn myself I have to ask a question.

Why would you cold call preflop?

Could we expect a TAG UTG to raise with, AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,AK,KQs. Anything else is unlikely. Thus what kind of flop do we need to feel comfortable with our JT? Straight draw, TTx, JJx, maybe JTx. I would have folded preflop so I am curious for your reasoning on the call.

Once the flop hit the way it did and UTG leads into a field of 3 I would feel completely dominated here,MP already called and we have BB yet to act. Even if a J hits it could be tainted and no doubt the MP could have any thing including AT,KQ,KT etc. If I am inclined to play this hand I would test UTG with a raise and try to get rid of BB and try for a free look at the river. Under these circumstances I would fold on this flop.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call and fold the turn UI. Little scary though, a J could give both of you two pair, but I'll still play my two pair as if it's best and raise the turn, and calling down if he three-bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sort of think that if we decide to proceed with this hand, it should probably bet done with the express intent that we need to fold a fair number of turns even when we hit. What will make this hand unprofitable is times we make a second-bet hand and pay off.

I think we should generally pay down if we make trips, but if we make two pair and betting goes crazy then we have to at least consider folding.

As it stands, I think I probably usually peel here but I actually kind of wish I didn't do so as often.

[ QUOTE ]
In an effort to learn myself I have to ask a question.

Why would you cold call preflop?

Could we expect a TAG UTG to raise with, AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,AK,KQs. Anything else is unlikely. Thus what kind of flop do we need to feel comfortable with our JT? Straight draw, TTx, JJx, maybe JTx. I would have folded preflop so I am curious for your reasoning on the call.

Once the flop hit the way it did and UTG leads into a field of 3 I would feel completely dominated here,MP already called and we have BB yet to act. Even if a J hits it could be tainted and no doubt the MP could have any thing including AT,KQ,KT etc. If I am inclined to play this hand I would test UTG with a raise and try to get rid of BB and try for a free look at the river. Under these circumstances I would fold on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


He posted.

[holdemfan]

[ QUOTE ]
He posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, sorry and thanks.

[gopnik]

fold