a DERB hand

[sthief09]

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right but that river call there is clearly -EV once derb bets and gets raised. the play then would be check-call, not bet-call. that's not a bet-call hand or board.

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the only problem is that he played his hand in a way that suggests he has nothing. his opponent can only put him on A7 or nothing pretty much. he 3-bet preflop then check-called twice. that is very weak. then he donks on the river. it's almost like he's inviting a bluff raise

[bxpeter]

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right but that river call there is clearly -EV once derb bets and gets raised. the play then would be check-call, not bet-call. that's not a bet-call hand or board.

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the only problem is that he played his hand in a way that suggests he has nothing. his opponent can only put him on A7 or nothing pretty much. he 3-bet preflop then check-called twice. that is very weak. then he donks on the river. it's almost like he's inviting a bluff raise

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exactly, except that newhizzle won't bluff raise him because he is positive derb is calling with any pair (and I am assuming derb knows this)

[mike l.]

"it's almost like he's inviting a bluff raise"

donk bets oftentimes indicate a small pair, instead of a complete bluff. that Q on the flop makes the hand rather bluff free. even derb cant have KT that often here.

[bxpeter]

Yeah, i'm saying that the reason why he would make seemingly retarded calls in other hands is so that he can play hands this way and safely bet-fold this river.

[elindauer]

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right but that river call there is clearly -EV once derb bets and gets raised. the play then would be check-call, not bet-call. that's not a bet-call hand or board.

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Mike, would you agree that if DERB always folds to a raise here, then calling might eventually become +EV? Can't he call and then fold the next 20 times in this situation, only to then call again?

-Eric

[Chris Callahan]

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i can't imagine that he would call a river raise... but who knows. Part of the reason why he makes those crazy calls on the end has got to be to prevent people from bluffing at him in a situation like this.

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I think so too. The solid approach if you are going to make thin value bets like this is to fold to a raise with the bottom end of your betting range. A4 is probably at the bottom, so if DERB has some brains he will likely fold that hand.

This means DERB (correctly) will pay off a raise most of the time (e.g. with A8), but not always. Maybe those who are saying DERB always calls here are confusing "always" with "most of the time"?

[tongni]

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im pretty sure derb calls a river raise right? and that's why he's a donk and will be broke soon. if you all say he'll bet fold that river then im wrong and he's a genius. but in that one street lies the answer. that flop check could be hints of genius. talk about unreadable.

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I really don't think he gets raised very often on the river at all, and if he does he should probably pay off. When hands are played strangely often times weird things happen and of all rivers this is one of the most "bluffable" but one that probably didn't improve his opponents hand. If I got to the river in this fashion I would probably pay it off as well.

[mike l.]

3 betting the river would be more correct if it was really right for him to call the river raise so much in this hand. which it cant be.

[Paluka]

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im pretty sure derb calls a river raise right? and that's why he's a donk and will be broke soon. if you all say he'll bet fold that river then im wrong and he's a genius. but in that one street lies the answer. that flop check could be hints of genius. talk about unreadable.


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How does the flop check make him unreadable? If he had pocket kings, he would have bet. He flopped nothing, so he checked. Is that what we are calling "unreadable" now? Sounds more like "readable".
And he absolutely calls the river raise.

[mike l.]

"How does the flop check make him unreadable? If he had pocket kings, he would have bet. He flopped nothing, so he checked."

right except for the part where he 3 bet pf. if he would never check KK or TT, A5 or AK (all defendable as a varying your play weirdness) here than youre right his flop check is awful. but i was assuming he would sometimes check those hands, since youve all said he plays erratic.

"And he absolutely calls the river raise."

ok then he sucks. but he's so much in the head of some of you guys that calling a river raise there is getting defense on here lol. i was willing to give him some credit for the flop check being a strange change up, but the river bet-call is atrocious here.