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#11
11-28-2005, 01:52 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. They're exactly the same. Somehow some people seem to think that sticking their hand in my pocket equates to "social justice". How the hell is stealing just? [/ QUOTE ] I think it would be a mistake to label tax policies as the only way in which we seek out social justice. [/ QUOTE ] You're right. They're not exactly the same, although I can't recall any policy aimed at correcting a "social injustice" that didn't involve someone sticking his hand in my pocket in one way or another. 
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#12
11-28-2005, 01:55 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
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I can't recall any policy aimed at correcting a "social injustice" that didn't involve someone sticking his hand in my pocket in one way or another. [/ QUOTE ] Just off the top of my head, the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
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#14
11-28-2005, 02:06 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I can't recall any policy aimed at correcting a "social injustice" that didn't involve someone sticking his hand in my pocket in one way or another. [/ QUOTE ] Just off the top of my head, the Voting Rights Act of 1965. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not arguing whether the Act itself is just or unjust, but are you really arguing that implementation of this or any other law does not involve spending tax dollars?
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#15
11-28-2005, 02:08 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
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I'm not arguing whether the Act itself is just or unjust, but are you really arguing that implementation of this or any other law does not involve spending tax dollars? [/ QUOTE ] That doesn't make it an "economic freedom issue"
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#16
11-28-2005, 02:12 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
[ QUOTE ]
Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same. [/ QUOTE ] It's easy to see that the above is not true by just imagining if we let economic freedom go to the extreme. How long would it take for monopolies to arise in every industry? Once monopolies arise, they can raise prices and lower wages at will since there are no government regulations. How could that lead to a socially just society? Economic Freedom does not equal freedom. A person working at barely subsistence wages is not free to quit their job even if there is no law against quitting. Freedom means the ability to do something without coercion. The threat of starvation, even the threat of poverty, is a type of coercion.
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#17
11-28-2005, 02:16 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I can't recall any policy aimed at correcting a "social injustice" that didn't involve someone sticking his hand in my pocket in one way or another. [/ QUOTE ] Just off the top of my head, the Voting Rights Act of 1965. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not arguing whether the Act itself is just or unjust, but are you really arguing that implementation of this or any other law does not involve spending tax dollars? [/ QUOTE ] No, of course the implementation of laws cost money - and the government generates revenue by taxation - so yes, certainly, implementing laws involves taxing you, and then spending what was taxed to execute and enforce said laws. I think what you really meant to say, originally, was "I can't recall any policy that didn't involve someone sticking his hand in my pocket in one way or another" ...which more or less furthers my belief that this forum, and every thread on it, eventually transforms itself into the same, tired, banal discussion about the legitimacy of the state and taxation -- and why I find it hard to post in/read this forum anymore. Mission accomplished, pvn. /rant
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#18
11-28-2005, 02:19 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Economic Freedom and Social Justice are one in the same. [/ QUOTE ] It's easy to see that the above is not true by just imagining if we let economic freedom go to the extreme. How long would it take for monopolies to arise in every industry? Once monopolies arise, they can raise prices and lower wages at will since there are no government regulations. How could that lead to a socially just society? Economic Freedom does not equal freedom. A person working at barely subsistence wages is not free to quit their job even if there is no law against quitting. Freedom means the ability to do something without coercion. The threat of starvation, even the threat of poverty, is a type of coercion. [/ QUOTE ] OMG THERE WILL BE MONOPOLIES!!!! Alert the internet!
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#19
11-28-2005, 02:20 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
I agree that the two ideas are rather nebulous.
I'll try to define them. Economic Freedom - The ability to make economic decisions without government intervention. Social Justice - The idea that people ought not to be rewarded or punished for circumstances they can't control (their race, their nationality, the economic success/failure of their parents, etc.). I realize that these definitions leave a lot to disagree with. It's worth trying to define them. I wish I had stated the question in terms of economic vs social PROGRESS, as I think those concepts are more easily defined.
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#20
11-28-2005, 02:21 PM
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Re: Economic Freedom vs Social justice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm not arguing whether the Act itself is just or unjust, but are you really arguing that implementation of this or any other law does not involve spending tax dollars? [/ QUOTE ] That doesn't make it an "economic freedom issue" [/ QUOTE ] Of course it does. The correction of "social injustices" via policy infringes on my "economic freedom".
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