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#81
08-16-2005, 05:39 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you cap 88 against a rock? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I've done it many times. A few of those times, they mucked their QQ/KK face up when an overcard hit the flop. Note, by rock I mean someone that is say the equivalent of 10/6. If they are 10/2, well, then they are only re-raising with AA and KK and I'm not capping. 
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#82
08-16-2005, 05:40 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think you guys are being a little hard on Oscar. I don't think it's that bad at all to call this preflop. A rock is going to shutdown against a cap. Let's say he has QQ. You cap preflop. [/ QUOTE ] Ya.. and he calls you down and gets owned. Now, 100 hands later, you cap with 88 HU v.s. him. He has QQ/KK, the flop comes Axx. You bet, he *if he is really a weak-tight-rock* folds. Imo, it is better to "loose" 1SB by overplaying/raising your weaker hands than to loose 1SB by underplaying/calling your monsters. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is just wrong. This means the majority of the time you cap against this guy you will have the worst hand. An ace is only going to flop a fraction of that time. On top of that, a lot of rocks will just call you down with a pair of Kings or Queens anyway. There is a lot more value in misleading him about the value of your hand when you have aces. Since his 3-betting range is slim, you can get him to put a lot of bets in the pot as a big underdog.
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#83
08-16-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why would you cap 88 against a rock? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I've done it many times. A few of those times, they mucked their QQ/KK face up when an overcard hit the flop. Note, by rock I mean someone that is say the equivalent of 10/6. If they are 10/2, well, then they are only re-raising with AA and KK and I'm not capping. [/ QUOTE ] That's a major -EV play, just for reference.
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#84
08-16-2005, 05:44 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
I agree with everything you have written here. The two lines are not interchangeable. However, they both are designed to get the most bets in.
Which line you use depends on the turn card and opponent. Here, I will concede that bet/call, check/raise is better. However, the intention of my original post was, "get more bets in on the flop and turn," not that you must use that exact line.
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#85
08-16-2005, 05:49 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with everything you have written here. The two lines are not interchangeable. However, they both are designed to get the most bets in. Which line you use depends on the turn card and opponent. Here, I will concede that bet/call, check/raise is better. However, the intention of my original post was, "get more bets in on the flop and turn," not that you must use that exact line. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, I can't believe someone actually read my post carefully and responded politely. Kudos to you, sir. If I could have figured out a way to get more bets in on the flop/turn, I would have! I just don't think against villian's range that I could have done much better. Maybe he would have gone to war on the flop with me with QQ/JJ/KK, but the chance that he folds AK is bad news for me. And I think he shuts down with QQ/JJ on the turn, probably. I dunno, this was a very tough hand. I'm glad at least a few posters recognize that it wasn't a series of easy decisions, there was a lot to think about, and that the best way to play it against this particular opponent is quite open to discussion. A discussion where reasonable people can disagree without being jerks about it.
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#86
08-16-2005, 05:51 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think you guys are being a little hard on Oscar. I don't think it's that bad at all to call this preflop. A rock is going to shutdown against a cap. Let's say he has QQ. You cap preflop. [/ QUOTE ] Ya.. and he calls you down and gets owned. Now, 100 hands later, you cap with 88 HU v.s. him. He has QQ/KK, the flop comes Axx. You bet, he *if he is really a weak-tight-rock* folds. Imo, it is better to "loose" 1SB by overplaying/raising your weaker hands than to loose 1SB by underplaying/calling your monsters. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is just wrong. This means the majority of the time you cap against this guy you will have the worst hand. An ace is only going to flop a fraction of that time. On top of that, a lot of rocks will just call you down with a pair of Kings or Queens anyway. There is a lot more value in misleading him about the value of your hand when you have aces. Since his 3-betting range is slim, you can get him to put a lot of bets in the pot as a big underdog. [/ QUOTE ] If they are going to call down their underpair, they are not a rock in my mind. I only do this to someone that will fold their underpair. If I have position, then putting the 1SB in pre-flop will likely buy me a free card on the flop. If an A or K doesn't fall, and the rock checks to me, he has KK/QQ/JJ. I can then check behind on the flop and bet an 8 or A turn. If he leads the flop, I can fold. If an A or K falls on the flop and he bets, I can fold. If an A or K falls on the flop and he checks, I can bet and he will probably fold. If you are in position, I think the 1SB is definitly worth it v.s. a rock since his hand will be so well defined and will probably be given a free card.
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#87
08-16-2005, 06:12 PM
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Re: Any chance someone can lock this thread soon?
[ QUOTE ]
Any chance someone can lock this thread soon? [/ QUOTE ] NO.... only NOW can you lock this thread 
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#88
08-16-2005, 06:58 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
So the only hand that makes sense here is AK. He'd bet that on the flop, and he'd just call on the turn with it. When no [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hits the river, he is only scared of KK and AA, and he knows those are quite unlikely given he holds and A and a K and there is a K on the board (only 3 ways to make AA and one to make KK). So he is pretty confident that he has the best hand, and he raises me, just in case I am still semibluffing with QQ or on the off chance I will pay him off with KQ with the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] If this is the case, then why do you think he didn't 3-bet you on the turn? He is willing to raise the river if a club doesn't come, why doesn't he re-raise the turn for your probably club flush draw? I only play 6-12 so I'm just trying to work these ideas through in my head.
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#89
08-16-2005, 07:34 PM
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Re: What did I do right and wrong here?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So the only hand that makes sense here is AK. He'd bet that on the flop, and he'd just call on the turn with it. When no [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hits the river, he is only scared of KK and AA, and he knows those are quite unlikely given he holds and A and a K and there is a K on the board (only 3 ways to make AA and one to make KK). So he is pretty confident that he has the best hand, and he raises me, just in case I am still semibluffing with QQ or on the off chance I will pay him off with KQ with the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] If this is the case, then why do you think he didn't 3-bet you on the turn? He is willing to raise the river if a club doesn't come, why doesn't he re-raise the turn for your probably club flush draw? I only play 6-12 so I'm just trying to work these ideas through in my head. [/ QUOTE ] Because he wants me to bet into him on the river to continue my semibluff, if that is what it is, and he wants to be able to bet a non-club river and get a call. He's also just a little scared of AA and KK, but not when I only call the turn.
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