Greg Raymer hand last night on P-stars..what do you think? - Page 4

KKsuited · #31 10-19-2004, 09:26 AM

Not sure what you're talking about here Roman. I said I thought Greg (or me) would reraise with the 9's, which would drive out the KQ (which would be a coin toss) and put you heads up with the K7, which you would be a pretty big favorite.

Not sure where you got the "drive out the hands that you have beat, leaving only the hands that have you beat." You must have misunderstood.

betgo · #32 10-19-2004, 11:16 AM

You can reraise and, if you don't want to play a hand with a strong player, you can fold.

What's wrong with flat calling? If you hit your set, you may win a big pot. If you get an open ended draw or a gutshot plus an overpair, you are probably going to push on the flop. If there are overcards, you fold to a bet by Raymer, but you fire at the pot once if he checks. If there is an underflop and you get action, then you have a decision.

It is too dangerous to reraise allin, since you may be up against a higher pair. You could reraise to 600. Raymer might fold. If he reraises, you have to fold. If he flat calls, he probably has either a higher pair or a strong ace: QQ, JJ, TT, 88, AK, AQ, AJs, ATs, or KQs are likely hands. In that case you play it pretty much the same as above, but you have to be more careful on an underflop. However, it may be harder to get away from since you have more invested. With KQs, Raymer would probably flat call hoping to hit something with the big suited connector, but he might push on a semibluff or fold.

gojacketz · #33 10-19-2004, 11:59 AM

I would be very interested to know what hands Greg would have called a reraise from the button in this hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he said "none".

Gojacketz

TheGremlin · #34 10-19-2004, 03:24 PM

She complain about greg pushing, she should complain about her folding ! but , she put herself in the position to fold , since she did not rais before... had she raised she might have find herself alone against K7 and greg out of the hand post flop. but this is all specs nothing for sure...

KKsuited · #35 10-19-2004, 05:36 PM

That's what I tried to argue, but pretty much got bashed. Most people think she should have just call the first raise, but I thought she should have reraised Greg to show strength. If you do that, Greg would not have reraise all-in and forced her out.

I just think the call, hope you hit a set or can outplay Greg on the flop is a bad play. Any really good player like Greg is going to be aggressive and I think you have to play back at them.

This hand is exactly the type hand Daniel Negreanu had written about on cardplayer. Being the type of player Greg is (and Daniel when he discusses these hands), he can win the pot with a K,Q,J,A or 10. Any over card and he will put a ton of pressure on you on the flop. If you don't show strength you're going to be faced with a big bet on the flop.

fnurt · #36 10-19-2004, 06:56 PM

If you are really sure Greg will play like that on the flop, you can make a lot of profit by just calling preflop and coming over the top of his inevitable flop bet, since he rates to not have the overcard he is representing.

Do you get my point? There is no reason to fear predictable aggression.

KKsuited · #37 10-19-2004, 11:42 PM

I see your point fnurt, I just don't like to play that way. One, I don't like to flat call a raise in that spot and two, if I'm going to push back an agressive player, I like to do it with a better hand than that.

I understand the call, it's just not how I would play it. I think Greg said he would call also, so obviously I'm in the wrong versus you two. But I'll also say, I'm sure Greg is use to his table image and less people would play back at him when he held the 9's.

Greg might be in a better position if the other guy missed the flop. They might be a little afraid to bet into him. If I was sitting there, they'd probably push in on me. Sometimes I wish I was the raining WSOP Champ.