Excellent Advice. Just One Thing . . .

[Poker Cat]

Life can be so unfair.
Where was an author like Ed Miller when I was 26?
To be that smart, so expert at poker -- and be able to explain it so effortlessly, would seem enough of a lucky streak at the genetic lottery. To have wisdom as well? Like I said, not fair.

I almost hate to do this. But there is one point with which I vehemently, savagely, disagree.

If you are in college right now, and find that you are making tons of dough playing poker online, I say QUIT COLLEGE AND PLAY POKER. $50,000 Hummers and $400 hotel rooms are scams, yes. Well guess what -- so is a $300,000 "ijication". College will not improve your social status, "prepare you for working", or even provide much "general knowledge" (and who the hell needs that, anyway?) If you want to socialize, go meet some people for hiking or tennis or whatever. If you want to learn a trade, then go to trade school. Want knowledge? Read a freakin'. You can buy several for 300 grand.

Although Ed is clearly wise for his age, I think this is the one area where his youthful bias shows. Admittedly, social institutions like college seem much more promising to the young. As John Mayer explains, "There's no such thing as the real world -- just a lie you got to rise above."

By the way, if you find yourself in the aforementioned dilemma, how did you learn to play poker? Did you go to Poker College for four years? Took the online course at Poker Tech? Didn't think so. You taught yourself. That's what smart, motivated people have always done. When the next opportunity arises, you'll do it again.

Put down the class list, get online and play. Work, save, buy a house. Read, watch, keep up. You'll do fine.

In case you were wondering, yes, I do have a B.A. in Economics. I've never used it. Make me an offer and it's yours.

[chezlaw]

Where was an author like Ed Miller when you were 26? !!!

Where was online poker when I was at college working 20+ hours a week in a pub for near minimum wage? [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I wouldn't have missed college for anything but its not either or. College was a breeze, playing nearly full-time whilst at college should not be much of a problem.

chez

[LittleOldLady]

[ QUOTE ]
Life can be so unfair.
Where was an author like Ed Miller when I was 26?
To be that smart, so expert at poker -- and be able to explain it so effortlessly, would seem enough of a lucky streak at the genetic lottery. To have wisdom as well? Like I said, not fair.

I almost hate to do this. But there is one point with which I vehemently, savagely, disagree.

If you are in college right now, and find that you are making tons of dough playing poker online, I say QUIT COLLEGE AND PLAY POKER. $50,000 Hummers and $400 hotel rooms are scams, yes. Well guess what -- so is a $300,000 "ijication". College will not improve your social status, "prepare you for working", or even provide much "general knowledge" (and who the hell needs that, anyway?) If you want to socialize, go meet some people for hiking or tennis or whatever. If you want to learn a trade, then go to trade school. Want knowledge? Read a freakin'. You can buy several for 300 grand.

Although Ed is clearly wise for his age, I think this is the one area where his youthful bias shows. Admittedly, social institutions like college seem much more promising to the young. As John Mayer explains, "There's no such thing as the real world -- just a lie you got to rise above."

By the way, if you find yourself in the aforementioned dilemma, how did you learn to play poker? Did you go to Poker College for four years? Took the online course at Poker Tech? Didn't think so. You taught yourself. That's what smart, motivated people have always done. When the next opportunity arises, you'll do it again.

Put down the class list, get online and play. Work, save, buy a house. Read, watch, keep up. You'll do fine.

In case you were wondering, yes, I do have a B.A. in Economics. I've never used it. Make me an offer and it's yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker Cat,

I just retired from a career teaching in an urban state university. A very large percentage of my students were so-called non-traditional students, that is those well over the usual 18-21 age bracket. I can tell you that for many of them going back to school was a huge struggle. They juggled jobs (sometimes quite responsible and well-paying ones) and family obligations along with their courseloads. Why would they bother to do this if that college education and the degree they were trying to earn weren't all that valuable and worthwhile? One big reason was credentialing. I taught tech writing, and many of my students were self-taught in the computer/IT fields. They had hit a ceiling and were unable to advance without a degree even though they had the expertise for a higher level position. Same was true of students who were "para-engineers"; they had the skills but not the credentials. Others found that they needed/wanted to change fields and needed further education to do so. I think this is going to be relevant to those contemplating dropping out of school to multi-table poker online. That is simply not a life's work. Even if online poker does continue to be popular, lucrative, and quasi-legal (and I think that is a very big if), it is a young folk's job. Sitting in your underpants and playing 8 tables of hold'em is going to get more or less old more or less fast. I think a Plan B is called for, and for most people Plan B would include a college degree. And a college degree is much easier to get when one is 18-21 and without family obligations than when one is 10-15 years or more older.

And, yes, my dear, college will definitely improve your social status--especially if you go to a prestigious one. I have many friends who grew up in working class families who are now happily ensconced in the upper-middle class due to their Ivy League educations. It is, I think, obvious that the single most important factor in raising Bill Clinton's social status was graduating from Yale....Even going to U of A/Little Rock would have boosted his status considerably from the status accrued by his family of origin.

I am definitely with Ed on this--stay in school.

Hi,
Very, very interesting debate going on here...

I would have to say that getting one's degree is very important, even if you don't go on to use the degree by getting a job in said field.
An interesting thing does happen when one spends their crucial developmental years (18-25) in college. Their IQs (general intelligence - ability to adapt, learn, etc.) go up.
All the papers, tests and quizzes, and presentations you do, all the reading studying, etc. actually makes you smarter (contrary to what you may think!). Yeah it hurts, yeah it's tough sometimes, but it's also very rewarding...
I think
it'd be a mistake to quit college if you think you can finish off the 4 year degree - It's definitely a HUGE mistake to
quit college to play poker full time if you only have a year or 2 left IMO...
finish the degree - you won't regret it (and you might really regret it if you don't).
There are so
many people who wish they were smart enough, had enough discipline, etc. (not to mention a scholarship or well-off parents to help pay for part (or all!) of the tuition) to be able to have a go at a 4 year Degree...and to just quit...when you've been given the blessing/opportunity to better yourself...doesn't make sense...

Unless you really hate school and don't care about bettering yourself...then quit...but this is a really immature attitude.
And if you're making $500,000+ a year playing poker online, then quit!
BAnk of few years of this and you're set...but I don't think that this applies to many...certainly not me!

To share my experiences, I completed my degree and am very glad I did. It's allowed me to start Grad. school and to get a job that I simply could not have w/out it!
But now that I have my 4 year and am a few classes away from finishing my Master's, I am faced with the same dilemma I'm sure many others are...
I currently make more money playing poker than I do at my full-time job...(IN MY SPARE TIME!).
Do I quit my job? Well, like a few others have talked about on here,
a 9 to 5 is absolutely killer for some...And I, personally, do not like my job...
I am trying to keep it as long as I can, but the more poker I play and the better I get at the game, the more money I'm making online...
I really am at the point where I can't justify waking up every morning and going into a job I don't like, with people I don't like (or who don't like me)...
So this is my problem...

Mason, or Dr. Al or any of the experts' advice welcome...Should I quit my job that I dont' really like and play more poker?
I already have my 4 year degree, I'm 25 yrs. old, and just "on the fence"
about making the jump to quitting my job and making poker my main source of income (even though, when you think about it - it already IS MY MAIN SOURCE OF INCOME, as I now make more money per month than I do at my full-time job! significantly more!).
It's a stressful and boring office job (as I'm sure many of you guys know all about).
I make more playing poker in my spare time and I am confident I can make even more
if I had no 9 to 5 job all week...(and no, I can't play poker at my desk at work!!!).
I could attack the late night games, sleep in every morning, take off whatever days I want to, go on vacation whenever (and for as long as) I want to, and the list goes on and on...

So, in summary, I think a college degree has so much value (intrinsic value) that goes beyond the doors it
opens for you...
It allows you to go to Grad. School, to maybe teach someday in your field of study - it elevates your social standing - and the process of
getting one actually raises your IQ!
Plus
the friends you make in college, the parties, the fun, the teachers, the relationships, the sporting events, all of it - they are truly priceless memories, and I'm sure, many, many people consider the time spent in college to be the best 4 years of their life.
Let the 8 tabling of 5/10, 10/20, etc. wait until later...

My (long) 2 cents,
Best regards,
Joe M.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason, or Dr. Al or any of the experts' advice welcome...Should I quit my job that I dont' really like and play more poker?
I already have my 4 year degree, I'm 25 yrs. old, and just "on the fence"
about making the jump to quitting my job and making poker my main source of income (even though, when you think about it - it already IS MY MAIN SOURCE OF INCOME, as I now make more money per month than I do at my full-time job! significantly more!).
It's a stressful and boring office job (as I'm sure many of you guys know all about).
I make more playing poker in my spare time and I am confident I can make even more
if I had no 9 to 5 job all week...(and no, I can't play poker at my desk at work!!!).
I could attack the late night games, sleep in every morning, take off whatever days I want to, go on vacation whenever (and for as long as) I want to, and the list goes on and on...

[/ QUOTE ]

There are two threads on quitting your day job in this forum following two articles by Dr Al in the magazine.

chez

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Cat:

I don't agree. A good college education will help you think better about many aspects of your life as time goes on. It's sometimes hard to see that when you're young, but I now see it very clearly. I have no doubt that if it wasn't for the years that I spent at Virginia Tech, I wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as I am now.

Poker can wait a couple of years, and it will still be there. Besides, there is no reason why you can't spend some of your free time playing poker and enjoying it.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hey chez,

Yeah, I've checked out those other threads and dropped a few comments relating to them in my above post.

You're the guy who I can relate to! Who talked about it being unhealthy to wake
up out of a peaceful sleep to an alarm clock, commute for an hour or 2 a day in the pollution and traffic, sit in front of a comp. screen all day - I agree totally.
It hurts.
Somedays (even my days off) I get sad/depressed when I even think about it...it seems like such a waste of a life to do this - and some of the guys (and gals) I work with have done it for 30, even 40 years...the same routene...for 50-60 grand a year gross...

I was kindof getting at the difference b/w my (i guess our)situation
as compared to someone who still hasn't finished college yet.
Also wanted some of the experts's advice for someone who has already finished college, entered the work-a-day world and find it's not for them...more of a "no-brainer" to turn to poker full time...

You play full time now? Do you regret leaving your job?

Another thing I'd find (and am finding difficult) is what it is to tell ppl. (family and friends in particular) I do for a living...(if I made the switch...).
Poker is not really accepted in general/as a job...anyone I know if you told them you play for a living would think you were a loser/degenerate/a "gambler" with a problem/etc.
I know this
isn't the case, and any winning poker player knows this...but you can't make someone else understand that you can make steady money at it - they
just won't believe you or think (no matter how much you made) that you'll lose everything 1 day when you decide to "risk it all" or something...(c.o. Rounders w/ Matt Damon).
My Mom and Dad esp. would have a tough time accepting their son as a pro-poker player...
I want them and others to think highly of me and I don't think they can do that if
all I did was play poker (no matter how much I made, well, unless I made millions ...)

Let me know how things are going w/ you. Was your job like the movie Office Space?
TPS Reports need shuffling?
lol

Take care, JoeM.

[Buccaneer]

How many Hummers do you have? I can assure you that you will get many more in college.

[chezlaw]

Hey Joe

[ QUOTE ]
You play full time now? Do you regret leaving your job?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am certain that its just about the best thing I've ever done. I haven't been this happy about day to day life since I left college 18 years ago and I have had a good carear by most standards. Leaving work has been like having a heavy weight lifted from my shoulders. No regrets unless the money runs out.

I don't want to advise anyone to go pro and hope no-one reads into the disagreement with Dr Al that its an easy option. Play a lot and listen to others but work it out for yourself.

The two key issues are whether the lifestyle suites you and whether its viable (three issues if you have a partner).

Good luck

chez

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I say QUIT COLLEGE AND PLAY POKER.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the only thing you learn in college is "how to learn", your education has been well paid for!

Some of the other more important "things" you should learn in college are...
1. The rules of how to socialize
2. The importance of deadlines
3. That you aren't the smartest person on earth
4. That you have to work hard to get what you want
5. That learning is a "lifetime" experience
6. How to keep a schedule (and still party all night)
7. A competitive spirit and the value of teamwork

Poker and college are not mutually exclusive, and any suggestion that people not go to college is -EV.

[ QUOTE ]
In case you were wondering, yes, I do have a B.A. in Economics. I've never used it. Make me an offer and it's yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

From this I take it that you've not been profitable enough at poker to have to worry about investing your winnings! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]