Weak 4th street check?

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I would complete right away on third. Jacks get overtaken way to often to not get aggressive and attempt to knock some people out right away. The limp re-reraise just serves to tie too many people on here. It also puts you in a tougher spot on fourth. People are much more likely to call a bet on fourth, given the investment they have made on third. Nevertheless, I would bet it anyway to see if I could get rid of at least one player. Maybe (but not likely) you get raised right away to thin the field further. I really don't like heading into fifth with a five way pot, holding just a pair of jacks.

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Well, I didn't mention it, but a fairly tight playerin the 8 seat called a completion with a with a 3 of spades as his door, and spades were completely live. I think falling into the trap of betting someones four flush would have been a mistake. Failing to recognize that some of my opponents may have caught nicely would be a mistake IMO. What would you do if one of your opponents paired his doorcard? Do you still lead out and bet?

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I don't like betting his four-flush, but I might be able to get up against just hit four-flush. Further, we know there are three dead cards to his four-flush - though, maybe (and I didn't say this originally) the live Aces make up for this? I am not too good with odds...

If one of them paired their door, I would consider folding and wonder why I let them pair such a crappy door card by not knocking them out the pot on 3rd. If I think he there is good chance he now only has a one pair hands or a low two pair, I might raise him, assuming he lead out, as this will likely get your heads-up in a sizeable pot as not too much of an underdog - if he has two pair below your Jacks.

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does this hand get posted if he shows you the straight?

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Sorry, I was probably not clear. What I meant was, if you play your Jacks with this line consistently - you will probably achieve playing a large pot. However, I tend to think that often your opponents are not as unlucky as they may have been with draws in this hand. With this many opponents, do you think you often win this hand with the type of hand made?

I do not know how to say clearly what I mean. Generally, does this line always win a pot a this size and do so with a high enough frequency to make it worthwhile?

[mscags]

Beer,
I think you def need to complete this on third and try to get it heads up. I like limp reraising once in a while but only with big hands that play well multi way. Split Jacks is not one of those hands. Complete it and hopefully you'll get it heads up with someone.

Mike

I understood what you meant, no problem there. Was referring to the comment of picking up 18 bets, as if that somehow is relevent. Points rehashed quickly, 3rd and 4th streets played in reverse. Raise third---NOW you can check-raise to try and thin if you feel like the situation warrents it, though I am likely to keep leading. The original poster should be interested if he played the hand correctly, not that he happened to win.

Complete third. I can't see any justification for limping, either to reraise or not. Bet 4th, and don't be too upset if you are raised by either the player with TK or the 3A guy. It may be what you need to narrow the field, and with the money in the pot, you can go to the river.

If you decide to check/call 4th, why bet out fifth? Sixth and seventh are fine.

[BeerMoney]

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Was referring to the comment of picking up 18 bets, as if that somehow is relevent. Points rehashed quickly, 3rd and 4th streets played in reverse. Raise third---NOW you can check-raise to try and thin if you feel like the situation warrents it, though I am likely to keep leading. The original poster should be interested if he played the hand correctly, not that he happened to win.

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Results are important. We can't really theoretically say how we get the most value out of hands in some situations. I got 18 bets out of this hand.. I can afford to lose a few times if the hands play out similarly. Blindly betting on 4th when my opponents are definitely correct to call against me, but I may not be so against one of my opponents seems like a decent time to check. If i caught two pair, a flush card, then i go ahead and bet. Everyone is talking about clearing the field on 3rd.. The completion was made and it didn't clear the field. I raise on 3rd for value. A lot of you would be better off switching your mindframe in small stakes games.. If your raising to get it heads up, and your opponents refuse, you're the one making the mistake often, not them.

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Results are important. We can't really theoretically say how we get the most value out of hands in some situations. I got 18 bets out of this hand.. I can afford to lose a few times if the hands play out similarly.

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I agree, that is why I end my post in the question. Does it do this often enough? I don't know, I was interested in whether people think it does. I suspected it didn't, but I could well be wrong.

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Blindly betting on 4th when my opponents are definitely correct to call against me, but I may not be so against one of my opponents seems like a decent time to check. If i caught two pair, a flush card, then i go ahead and bet.

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Well, the flush card is horrible in this instance, but I understand how you feel. I just think that the less hands you are up against here, the better. If it gets checked or single bet through, then a lot of people get later into the hand. You now have a lot of people attempting to outdraw you. You might have enough equity that you do not care. However, I think it makes your decisions on later streets tougher, if nothing else. They might be correct to call you regarding their pot odds - but, are they correct to call to the end knowing you have a nice hand and are going to bet and raise? Further, if they might fold when they should call, you are forcing them to make a mistake.

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Everyone is talking about clearing the field on 3rd.. The completion was made and it didn't clear the field. I raise on 3rd for value.

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I think the fact that it didn't clear the field should be tackled two-fold here. First, in a tight game a completion from Jack-door should be folding quite a few hands - especially the early players. Second, I think the completion is *more* likely to get called here given the door of the completing bettor.

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A lot of you would be better off switching your mindframe in small stakes games.. If your raising to get it heads up, and your opponents refuse, you're the one making the mistake often, not them.

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This may be the case, I play a lot lower and a lot worse than you. If you want to highlight where I am wrong, then I am grateful for this.

[BeerMoney]

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Well, the flush card is horrible in this instance, but I understand how you feel. I just think that the less hands you are up against here, the better. If it gets checked or single bet through, then a lot of people get later into the hand. You now have a lot of people attempting to outdraw you. You might have enough equity that you do not care. However, I think it makes your decisions on later streets tougher, if nothing else. They might be correct to call you regarding their pot odds - but, are they correct to call to the end knowing you have a nice hand and are going to bet and raise? Further, if they might fold when they should call, you are forcing them to make a mistake.



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Nice thoughts.. This helps. You're a nice addition to this forum. And no, I probably don't play better than you, I just have more posts!

I give up