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#11
11-17-2005, 04:44 AM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
[ QUOTE ]
If your statement about "fallen man's" inability to correctly apply reason to theological matters is correct, then the same logically applies to his ability to apply it mathematics. [/ QUOTE ] I don't say this. I say that Scripture is above man's reason. If there is a conflict between what we THINK is logical and what Scripture clearly teaches, Scripture wins. But logic does have a place in interpreting Scripture. Reformed theologians are often commended (and criticized) for their grasp of logic. Calvin was extremely logical in his theology. But he knew Who was Boss. 
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#12
11-17-2005, 05:01 AM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
So in other words scripture is purely mystical in nature. And God really doesn't want us to understand it right?
And in past threads I've started, you have used this same excuse to say scripture cannot be understood, and that all the competing theologies of various christian denominations each only possess partial truth. Even on differences regarding the fundamental question as to the requirements for salvation. And yet you have also maintainted that because of all this, you don't believe that God would thus provide that precisely one denomination, whichever it might be, possess the 100% correct interpretation of scripture and christian doctrine so it could faithfully be transmitted incorrupt to future generations. How can all this make sense to you? And there is an answer as to how man's reason can correctly interpret scripture. The Holy Spirit. God doesn't provide food that you can't eat or fundamental doctrine that you can't understand.
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#14
11-17-2005, 12:08 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
I have told you before that I have no wish to misrepresent your views. Nonetheless, virtually everything we say here has certain logical or illogical implications not only in itself, but also in regards to the set of beliefs that we hold. I merely try to bring out those implications. And it is often by taking something to its logical extreme, that a flaw in reasoning can be found.
And if there are certain logical contradictions in the set of beliefs that you hold, as I believe there are, then surely God expects you to reexamine the particular way in which you believe christianity. But if you think there are not, then surely you can find more precise ways of expressing yourself without being intentionally vague or begging the question. Don't be a quitter.
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#15
11-17-2005, 12:40 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
[ QUOTE ]
And it is often by taking something to its logical extreme, that a flaw in reasoning can be found. [/ QUOTE ] It is taking logic to an extreme that pushes it past the Word of God. Your position is correct if logic is the absolute standard. As I keep on saying, and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying,and saying, ----- God is HIGHER than HUMAN logic.
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#16
11-17-2005, 01:14 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
I agree 100%. But that can't be used as a copout explanation to explain holding a set of beliefs that has logical contradictions within itself. And you never really seem to grasp that logic is a branch of knowledge with strong mathematical foundations.
And the basis of all our disagreements is the correct interpretation of divine revelation. The true fruit of protestant theology is the lack of an authentic interpreter with the resulting scores of competing theologies. If God has given us the truth, then it has to be correctly understood to be of any spiritual use to men, or that word has been rendered void. Only by having precisely one denomination being the holder of the complete and entirely correct theology of God, can that word be effectively transmitted to the future. And only by having a complete set of beliefs that is logically coherent and based on divine revelation, can we know we possess the truth. Not understanding all the mystical implications of certain scriptural passages or the depths of certain matters that are "details", does not render theology immune from logical analysis. God gave us the truth to understand and live by. And since it is possible for humans to have conflicting interpretations of divine things, He gave us an authentic interpreter, i.e. the Catholic Church, which has been here for nearly 2000 years (and I can easily prove exercises of papal authority and the existence of an insitutional church well before the protestant date of ca. 325 for the start of the catholic church). And I will throw out the challenge to you that I have before. Read the writings of the early christians of the first generations after the apostles, and see if what they believed and how they worshipped in any way is similar to protestant belief and practice, and thus representative of the protestant claimed "primitive christian church" that supposedly existed before their date for the start of the "institutional church".
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#17
11-17-2005, 03:19 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
"God is HIGHER than HUMAN logic."
Yes, but He also will never contradict human logic. If there is an actual logical flaw in the "word of God" it is not the Word of God, and should be cast away. Humans get the benefit of the doubt, not "God". You are very good at pointing out the logical contradictions of non Christian views. However, your ecumenical view of Christian religions contains logical flaws that contradict the wonderfully intolerant Catholic religion.
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#18
11-17-2005, 03:57 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
[ QUOTE ]
but He also will never contradict human logic. [/ QUOTE ] "My ways are not your ways and My thoughts are not your thoughts". "Who are you, O man, who answers back to God". " The Book of Job".
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#19
11-17-2005, 04:52 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
The debate between Peter666 and Not Ready, if it could only happen, will make all others pale by comparison.
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#20
11-17-2005, 05:13 PM
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Re: Two Questions For Not Ready
"My ways are not your ways and My thoughts are not your thoughts".
That means that God who is infinite doesn't need to spend time thinking about the things we are trying to figure out logically because He already knows them all. It says nothing of the process He has invented specifically for rational human beings to derive the truth. "Who are you, O man, who answers back to God". This quote applies only in cases where you can prove that God actually said it. How can you do that?
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