too agressive with TT

Mikey · #1 02-10-2003, 06:00 PM

10-20

I raise UTG with TT I am 3-bet by a decent player, he wears his emotions on his sleeve and I think he's the type of decent player who believes in rushes, plus I don't think he likes me too much so he may be making this hand personal. I call and it's heads up.

The flop comes 8 6 3 rainbow.

I check, he bets, I raise, he reraise, I reraise, he reraises, I reraise, he calls.

Turn K.

I bet he folds.

Am I playing this hand too agressive or is this how you should be playing, because I was most likely going to fold if he reraised one more time.

The basic question I want to ask is.....that I check raised the flop, not lead out.

Usually when someone checkraises the flop they have nothing and are trying to muscle their way through the hand, for all I know he could have thought that I had AK and hit my card, plus I don't have position on him at all. Should I be the one leading out here or should I be checkraising this flop or does it not even matter.

Did I get lucky by him folding a better hand because I showed too much agression.

travisand · #2 02-10-2003, 06:05 PM

I think you listed too many reasons not to fold--he believes in rushes, he might be making this hand personal. Plus the reason you said that he might believe you are weak for check-raising and trying to bully your way through the hand.
I don't think you did anything really wrong, plus it is always better to be too aggressive than too passive.

andyfox · #3 02-10-2003, 06:32 PM

This guy put in six bets on the flop and folded for one bet on the turn. You have to love it. I would have check-raised the flop too. No question he's going to bet no matter what flops after 3-betting pre-flop.

From your description of him, I wouldn't have folded for one more bet. I would have called him all the way down no matter what came on the turn and the river (unless of course a T came, in which case I'd start another raising was with him).

"Usually when someone checkraises the flop they have nothing and are trying to muscle their way through the hand"

I find it hard to muscle my way through the hand out of position. I see a check-raise a lot when the pot is 3-bet pre-flop because of the relative certainty that the 3-bettor is going to bet the flop. The check-raiser frequently has a lot more than nothing.

Given the opponent and the situation, I think you played perfectly.

astroglide · #4 02-10-2003, 08:12 PM

6 bets seems extreme here, are we missing any info?

Ulysses · #5 02-10-2003, 08:29 PM

Given the opponent and the situation, I think you played perfectly.

Given we now know this is an opponent who folds for one bet on the turn after 3-betting pre-flop and 5-betting the ragged flop, perhaps.

However, even if they're tilting and gunning for me, when a "decent player" re-raises me pre-flop and 5-bets me on the flop, I'm not that excited about holding TT.

D.J. · #6 02-10-2003, 08:32 PM

I think this guy could have laid down the best hand here possibly JJ or QQ, I just don't see anyone going that many bets on the flop w/ nothing, unless this guy REALLY had it in for you. But the thing is you'll never know, just be glad you took down the pot, you may have had the best hand or you may not have, but the K definitely got him off his hand. Just remember, bad players get good cards just like everyone else, don't always assume that they're playing trash.

-D.J.

Ulysses · #7 02-10-2003, 08:36 PM

I think you were playing too aggressively, especially if you were going to fold to one more reraise as you mention.

What kind of hand do you put him on? If it's a big overpair, why keep raising? If it's AQ/AK, why would you fold? I don't think it's reasonable for you to put him on overcards when he 5-bets and change that to overpair if he 7-bets.

I don't understand the turn bet. I can't believe someone willing to go 6 on the flop will fold JJ or QQ when a King comes. What do you do if he raises you here? Again, a guy who would go 6 bets on the flop w/ AQ surely might raise when a King hits.

As for the flop check-raise, I don't like it. I'd bet out here because I'm very likely to get raised on this flop by just about anyone who 3-bet pre-flop. Then I'd 3-bet and probably call if he 4-bet.

Tommy Angelo · #8 02-10-2003, 08:54 PM

I don't see any mystery here. And I think he played it well. Give him J-10 suited with a backdoor flush draw. Now give you a non pocket-pair hand.

Would you checkraise with AK and then make it four bets? I don't know. And he doesn't either. And it doesn't matter. Up til your fourth bet, he has reasonable hope that you do not have a pocket pair, as you said yourself about checkraises on the flop. And if you have AK or AQ or KQ, then he has cards to catch to win. Plus he earns river-bluffing power, if you back down, which you probably would have done without a pair. It all fits together nicely.

Then, not only did you keep firing on the flop, but the king came on the turn. Now the only hands he is drawing to beat are pocket pairs 10-10 and lower. Plus, there you are, still firing away. He missed all pair draws and backdoor draws. Easy fold on the turn. The only thing he did that was overly spunky was to make it five bets on the flop, on momemtum, instead of stopping after you made it four bets. Not that bigga deal really. If he'd stopped at four on the flop, I'd say he played it well. Either way, he did a good job of setting you up for further confusion.

Tommy

SoBeDude · #9 02-11-2003, 09:47 PM

I agree and think you got lucky.

how many players would 5-bet with less than a decent pair?
Even given what you said about him, what kind of hand did you put him on? He probably had AA, QQ, or JJ (my take on his hand) and had you on KK or AA. Then when the K hit he figured he was beat and folded. He may very well had AA and put you on KK, then when the K hit he figured he was toast.

I think you got lucky.

-Scott

Mikey · #10 02-11-2003, 10:52 PM

Do you know why he folded in my opinion?

From what I can determine the reason why he folded was because when I checkraised the flop and he reraised, I reraised without a flinch, when he came back over the top without hesitation I reraised again without any slight hesitation and so on.....

for all I know he thought I probably flopped a set of 88's or had AA or KK.

I think I did get lucky, but in a way I don't think it was luck it was the fast action no hesitation reraising, because if he thought he had the best hand right then and there on the flop he would have kept going, but he stopped.

He mumbled something like this at the time the flop raising war was over "I guess Q's aren't good" I didn't say a word and fired again on the turn when the King fell.