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#11
07-09-2004, 03:02 PM
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Teach me something, guys....
my thoughts/questions...
1. why didn't LP 3-bet it pre-flop? slow-play? 2. shouldn't the poster have re-raised the flop based on the strength of his hand (top pair, top kicker?). in addition, couldn't this play have represented KK? i'm sure there's another level of thinking i'm missing out on. thanks for the input, guys. 
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#13
07-09-2004, 07:53 PM
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Re: Sometimes you just get outplayed.
[ QUOTE ]
LP clearly missed bets. [/ QUOTE ] no doubt about this. [ QUOTE ] Question: you get raised on the turn, do you fold? [/ QUOTE ] If this player didnt slow down, i could fold the turn. Not saying it'd be easy, but when one is auto-betting, it's a sign to heed. [ QUOTE ] Do you really think you got outplayed [/ QUOTE ] He got quite a few bets out of me playing the way he did. Again, i think he outplayed me, but not the table. b
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#14
07-09-2004, 08:08 PM
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Re: Teach me something, guys....
[ QUOTE ]
1. why didn't LP 3-bet it pre-flop? slow-play? [/ QUOTE ] Probably a trap move he was doing. He wasn't the 'passive' type. I dont think this was a good spot for it, but... [ QUOTE ] shouldn't the poster have re-raised the flop based on the strength of his hand (top pair, top kicker?). in addition, couldn't this play have represented KK? i'm sure there's another level of thinking i'm missing out on. [/ QUOTE ] Note my image on the table. (i think i mentioned it. If not, i was getting respect on this table. When most would raise me, they had something good.) With that image, i got auto-raised after raising preflop and betting the K high board. He could be on a str8 draw, but he's not likely to call with JT to my pre-raise here plus he wasn't the type to jam it if he was drawing in this spot. But it is possible, which is why i considered it and decided to test the turn. The way he put the raise in wasn't like he was drawing. It wasn't as obvious as my chips barely settling on the felt when he fires a raise, but it caught my eye. He hardly saw the board and made no real motion as if looking for something on the turn. I wasnt totally sure, so i bet the turn. Which told me he didn't have KQ or a set. A set is raising this turn, not calling it. Why would he not raise? Even if i tried to represent KK on the flop, it's very hard to bump someone off AA in a shorthanded pot, much less at all. Bumping someone off KK is tough enough. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Given his flop play, it didn't seem like he was going to laydown too soon. Usually when someone auto-bets/raises, they're going to showdown unless the board looks real ugly. b
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#15
07-09-2004, 08:16 PM
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Re: Please clarify
[ QUOTE ]
if you weight the chips not in your stack with the probability of those chips ending up in your stack then the value of the chips in a loose players stack are more than the value of those same chips in a tight player's stack b/c the associated probability of ending up with those chips (tight player's chips) is reduced. [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't this make the tight player's chips more valuable b/c they are harder to get? Though i agree that the loose player himself is more valuable to the game based on what you said. b
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#16
07-09-2004, 08:17 PM
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Re: Teach me something, guys....
thanks for the reply.
i'm just wondering IF (not to discount your play): a 3-bet on the flop followed by leading on the turn when the blank hit would have made him think otherwise? of course, if he put you on AK, then he'll call you down to the river, but KK and QQ would have been nasty hands.
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#18
07-09-2004, 08:19 PM
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Re: Then...
However, he is right in asserting that the loose player has more value to you in the game itself. For some reason, i feel when i drag a pot from a tightie, i earned it a little more. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
b
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#19
07-09-2004, 08:25 PM
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Re: Teach me something, guys....
He may very well have capped the flop on me if i 3 bet. I see what you're saying though. I think if the K paired he may let it go.
Looking back, if i had KK or QQ and did a stop and go, i may have lost about the same amount. Unless i c/r'ed the turn. I would make more money in that case, yet still lost the pot. But with a set, and a draw out there along with a guy jamming, id likely jam this flop with my set. b
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#20
07-09-2004, 09:14 PM
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Re: Sometimes you just get outplayed.
The tight player's chips don't have more value, but the opportunity to get some of them is precious. Using some exaggeration to illustrate: Suppose the tight player sees a flop once every 24 hours; half the time with AA, half with KK. The loose player calls every flop. Assume you're unlucky like me: you catch AA once every 440 hands. When would you like to catch the AA; when Mr. Tight folds, when he holds AA, or when he holds KK?
You'll only get a limited number of opportunities to take a tight players chips, so each opportunity is precious. Furthermore, it is much more emotionally satisfying to (here's the delicate part) a worthy foe.
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