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  #1  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:27 PM
LRAO LRAO is offline
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Default Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

I'm in the CO with QTs. LAP in MP open raises, folded to me, I call, button folds, SB calls, folded back to raiser.

Flop:

QTT

SB checks, MP bets, I raise (to chase out the other T, maybe AT or KT), both players call.

Turn

J

Checked to me, I bet, both players call.

River:

J

Checked to me, I check, knowing that someone has a J.

Showdown:

MP (pre-flop raiser) as AA.
I have Ts full of Qs.
SB has JT, Js full of Ts.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:37 PM
DeeJ DeeJ is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

Similar thing happened to me today. Turned and Rivered Aces made my Jacks go down proverbial toilet and lost loads to some random AT holding on a JTx flop. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:51 PM
steveyz steveyz is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

You shouldn't be cold calling with this hand even against a LAP. 3-bet him if you can isolate him, fold otherwise. On the flop, raising is ok, but it definitely will not "drive out" the other T, even T2o is going nowhere. Raise this flop if you believe that you won't be bet into again on the turn, otherise wait until the turn to raise to get more money in.

I have no idea what SB was attempting to do, but he played this horribly. You lost a lot less money than you should have.
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:55 PM
astroglide astroglide is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

you cold-called a raise with QTs. you raised the flopped 2nd nut full. you raised because you thought a ten would fold.
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2004, 12:58 PM
DcifrThs DcifrThs is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the CO with QTs. LAP in MP open raises, folded to me, I call, button folds, SB calls, folded back to raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is an EASY fold without a read on the raiser. if you have a read and control then you can reraise to isolate as long as you have a malliable table. QTs just ain't too good.

[ QUOTE ]


Flop:

QTT

SB checks, MP bets, I raise (to chase out the other T, maybe AT or KT), both players call.


[/ QUOTE ]

you include no suits. id call here for sure most of the time. the reason is that you DONT WANT to chase out the other ten because that ten is making a mistake playing against you given your respective holdlings. not only is that ten not going to fold to your flop raise, you may cost yourself bets later on by announcing strength so soon. also, you have ALL draws (other than the odd boat draw) drawing 100% dead to you and they are, therefore, not getting the proper price to play. LET THEM IN!!! then rape them on the expensive streets when they hit their dead straight and flush draws.

[ QUOTE ]


Turn

J

Checked to me, I bet, both players call.


[/ QUOTE ]

standard.

[ QUOTE ]

River:

J

Checked to me, I check, knowing that someone has a J.


[/ QUOTE ]

what gave you the idea somebody had a jack? i can agree with your check here since you don't want to be checkraised but you still gave no indication as to why you fear the jack.

[ QUOTE ]


Showdown:

MP (pre-flop raiser) as AA.
I have Ts full of Qs.
SB has JT, Js full of Ts.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you're in a great game and lost so little money, relatively speaking, on this hand that you should be thankful they suck so badly.

all in all i think you need to rethink what to do on the flop in these situations. go for the overcalls on the flop and make the draws think they're live. then when they complete and put money in ONLY THEN do they realize how dead they were. and you profit enormously from that simple error of putting money in when dead. and you can also see WHY its so important to lengthen you're odds when there's a possibility of YOU drawing dead.

-Barron
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  #6  
Old 07-06-2004, 02:21 PM
Dante Dante is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

let me clarify what astro implied and my own thoughts:

"you cold-called a raise with QTs" - if you want to isolate the LA player, then 3bet him and get position or fold, you don't want the blinds in with that hand. Notice if you 3-bet, you'll probably win this hand, unless the SB will call 2.5 bets cold with JT.

"you raised the flopped 2nd nut full. you raised because you thought a ten would fold" - if you're raising to fold a ten, you're thinking is waaaaay off. You want the ten to CALL, even if it's AT or KT, let him chase his 3 outs. You want the other crappier tens to fill up, although not twice on the Jack.

After the flop, yes, you took a runner runner perfect perfect beat, but it's your thought process that seems very suspect.
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  #7  
Old 07-06-2004, 02:31 PM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

I think you meant to post here.

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  #8  
Old 07-06-2004, 02:36 PM
AviD AviD is offline
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Posts: 540
Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

As others have already explained in your other "are you ready to move to higher limits" thread, this hand indicates you are certainly not ready and need more time to apply the concepts you are reading...or at least read them more carefully.

I don't think you read anywhere to cold call a raise with QTs, this is certainly a fold preflop. You flop a monster and play it fearing a better hand (only QQ beats you here on this flop) and are even trying to push out AT/KT by raising? This is a great sign of not only weak-tight play, but shows a complete lack of knowledge on the game and ANY player types you may encounter (nevermind the maniacs and LAGs you are claiming to be playing). NO ONE is folding ANY T there with only 3 players...nevermind AT/KT.

Definitely, definitely spend more time in the lower limits, read the forums, post some more hands, keep reading and applying, and try to build up your bankroll.

At least you posted this hand, because if you continue to play this hand or like this in mid limits or above (or any limit really), you will certainly get crushed.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2004, 02:37 PM
RoodyPooh RoodyPooh is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ???)

I would bet the river when checked to there about 100% of the time.
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2004, 03:17 PM
LRAO LRAO is offline
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Default Re: Don\'t know how to classify this hand (bad bead, major suck out, ??

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't be cold calling with this hand even against a LAP. 3-bet him if you can isolate him, fold otherwise. On the flop, raising is ok, but it definitely will not "drive out" the other T, even T2o is going nowhere. Raise this flop if you believe that you won't be bet into again on the turn, otherise wait until the turn to raise to get more money in.

I have no idea what SB was attempting to do, but he played this horribly. You lost a lot less money than you should have.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you in that:

A. I shouldn't have called and
B. I should have 3-bet to isolate.

But to "justify" A., I will say that I did not have a lot of respect for him.

I felt that the SB was holding some sort of paint/draw. I felt he had the J based on HOW he checked the river. I felt a check-raise attempt was on the horizon.

When I didn't get re-raised on the flop, I knew that the pre-flop raiser didn't like the flop, but still had a strong hand. I had the SB on a KJ, or Tx.

Hope this thought process doesn't upset too many of you.
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