Fishy 4th Street raise?

Was this raise clever or fishy? I figured as long as my equity is greater than 1/5 here, a raise would be profitable.

(The open 4's only made a small bet, and I doubled.)

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls

[PoorLawyer]

i think its a good raise with all those callers

[beta1607]

This is a good raise - the only thing I am a little worried about is seat 4 having trips but seat 6 having a dead 4 makes trips less likely.

[vintage_sara]

I don't mind the raise here based on the boards. The fours are pretty dead. You are possibly against two pair, However, almost everyone else likely has one pair so you are a good favorite. You don't mind getting the hand heads up to get live on your ace or having others come in for two bets as a likely money favorite.

With that said, I don't mind a call here either. Getting people in is not so bad with a flush draw especially with everyone's boards so dead. You do in fact have two clubs out and your flush is low except for the ace.

The hand I fear the most in this pot is the 62 spades. This screams of a flush draw to me and technically it is much more live. Proceed with caution against seat 1 if they catch a spade especially the ace or king because your flush draw is very low.

Well, the raise was basically predicated on the value of my club draw alone. I figured it would complete more than 1/5 of the time, and that I would almost always take down the pot when it did.

I wasn't really trying to isolate at all, just to build the pot.

[frappeboy]

If the guy with 4s on board is an aggressive player, you should just call. If you think he's just going to call your raise, then the raise is good, but you dont want him re-raising and knocking the other 2 guys out of the pot. It wouldn't be so bad if he had just a pair of kings or queens because now you can spike an ace and win, but if he gets you heads up with 2 pair your hand has no chance other than the flush draw.

I don't think you need to worry about other flush draws. When you have an ace with a 4 flush you'll have the best draw most of the time.

No, he was a donkey. These players were insanely passive, and I was fairly sure they would all just call.

[BeerMoney]

I like it. It looks like you understand flush draws on fourth. Most people won't fold to a raise after calling a bet, so i like it.

Was this on party? It looks like you found yourself a good table. I hope you made a lot of $$.

[Guyon]

Could you have posted this hand to enjoy the lavish praise for your play? Just joking... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Actually, I do think it was a solid raise for a number of reasons:

- The dead 4 greatly reduces the chance that you are up against trips, and decreases the chance that your opponent will fill up when you improve. Plus, since he is a donk, the range of hands that he could have is ridonkulous.

- The number of limpers leads me to believe that the game tends to be on the passive side, so raising the field on 4th will probably be called all around, creating a sizeable pot.

- I agree that the relatively live ace high flush draw is usually the best draw, especially in this situation (In that when it hits, it will probably be the best hand). You are 4:1 against making your flush draw on 4th street ALONE, so your equity for the hand makes the raise +EV

- There is a moderate possibility that hitting an ace on 5th will give you extra outs, adding a little extra value to this hand.

You can make a counterarguement against the raise, because you may knock people out and increase the chances of winning the pot with aces up or aces if you miss the draw, but considering the calling tendencies of the table and your pot equity, the EV sides in favor of the raise.

What site do you play at again? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[vintage_sara]

I think the raise is okay. My concern would be how live is my flush vs. potential other flush draws on the table? Do I realy think I am the money favorite at that point? That's is why the raise is made not because you have a four flush alone....Just some additional thoughts.

But I am glad you had a reason, you also need to think about the consequences. Are you willing or wanting to get it heads up? Because that could be the result of that raise.